Australian Politics (1 Viewer)

[Lentern]

thats not an attack on freedom thats just stupid government being stupid

Yeah it kind of is.

 

[scuba_steve2121]

Yeah it kind of is.

how?

 

[Lentern]

how?

Let me begin by reiterating this is just assuming a libertarian stance for a moment, I'm personally a big believer in tax and spend governing. But given that anyone who can afford to pay for private health insurance would be paying so much tax already that they are paying for the whole cost of their public health care and then some then without a subsidy you are effectively demanding someone pay double the average rate and then some for the heinous crime of choosing their own health care. It punishes choice and productivity.

 

[scuba_steve2121]

Let me begin by reiterating this is just assuming a libertarian stance for a moment, I'm personally a big believer in tax and spend governing. But given that anyone who can afford to pay for private health insurance would be paying so much tax already that they are paying for the whole cost of their public health care and then some then without a subsidy you are effectively demanding someone pay double the average rate and then some for the heinous crime of choosing their own health care. It punishes choice and productivity.

oh i see what you mean now true...true

but for the sake of arguing medicare wouldn't work ( and I'm not saying that it does now) without higher income earners paying the medicare levy or else the public health system wouldn't have enough funding to function. which is why (and i know this is off topic) the Howard government offered the rebate to get people onto private health insurance to take the pressure off the crappy public system in the fing first place

the perils of living in democratic state your forced to pay or risk being imprisoned

 

[Lauchlan]

its very simple.

Tony abbott is a douche.


Therefore rudd, flawed as he is, is the only choice

this is perhaps the most succinct, correct comment i have ever encountered on bored of studies. I take my figurative hat off to you.

 

[Lauchlan]

Oh come on Slidey you're being ridiculous. As much as Rudd seems to betray the secular progressivism of Whitlam, Hayden and Hawke he does not come close to the greater of two evils when sparring with Abbott. Ignoring his record as health minister, he would have sat around the cabinet table that decided to cancel Mohammad Haneefs visa, that put children like Shayan Badraie in detention, that raped the natural environment for temporary job creation, that dismantled worker protection laws and refused to make any real steps towards reconciliation whatsoever. You would know that unlike Turnbull, Hockey or Costello, Abbott wasn't dissenting at any of those cabinet meetings? You can't seriously lend your preference to that man over something so trivial as an internet filter that won't work and would for the large part only police activity that is already actually illegal.

you are very wise. i hope everyone listens to these words of wisdom.

 

[Lentern]

oh i see what you mean now true...true

but for the sake of arguing medicare wouldn't work ( and I'm not saying that it does now) without higher income earners paying the medicare levy or else the public health system wouldn't have enough funding to function. which is why (and i know this is off topic) the Howard government offered the rebate to get people onto private health insurance to take the pressure off the crappy public system in the fing first place

the perils of living in democratic state your forced to pay or risk being imprisoned

I'm aware of this my point is the health care system for an example is far more punitive and limiting(personally I'm glad it is) than a crumby internet filter.

 

[Lentern]

you are very wise. i hope everyone listens to these words of wisdom.

Mate Slidy votes green anyway, Greens are likely to get a senate seat so his senate preference won't flow on and there aren't that many marginal seats in NSW anyway, this is just him rapping Rudd on the knuckles for betraying the trust.

 

[scuba_steve2121]

I'm aware of this my point is the health care system for an example is far more punitive and limiting(personally I'm glad it is) than a crumby internet filter.

hmm i can see where your coming from but more people would be upset on the internet filter considering most people use it almost everyday, while idk anyone who has to go to the hospital everyday. then again on health my opinion on is biased considering i think both Rudd's and Tony's plans are crazy

 

[Lentern]

hmm i can see where your coming from but more people would be upset on the internet filter considering most people use it almost everyday, while idk anyone who has to go to the hospital everyday. then again on health my opinion on is biased considering i think both Rudd's and Tony's plans are crazy

Yeah but the health system in terms of encroaching on freedom is primarily economic freedom aka money, which people use more than the internet I daresay. Plus there is some wriggle room to claim that whilst the filter will primarily be punishing theft of intellectual property and sexual abuse of minors the health care system really punishes people for being good at their job.

 

[scuba_steve2121]

Yeah but the health system in terms of encroaching on freedom is primarily economic freedom aka money, which people use more than the internet I daresay. Plus there is some wriggle room to claim that whilst the filter will primarily be punishing theft of intellectual property and sexual abuse of minors the health care system really punishes people for being good at their job.

like i said i do agree with you mostly but I'm just saying that there is likely to be more public outcry when everybody's internet is 50-60% slower and the liberals can't visit their own website XD and yes medicare is punishing people who are good at their job but as i have said for the sake of the system it needs rich peoples money i don't agree with it at all, don't forget that

 

[Slidey]

Oh christ, tell me you're not sucked into this chest thumping civil liberties nonsense.

Civil liberties aren't nonsense (in fact they're typically synonymous with human rights) and if you've been at all aware of what I've posted here over the past couple of years, you'd know I'm a staunch civil libertarian.

You also incorrectly state that this internet censorship would block child porn - it wouldn't do anything to the flow of child porn, since child porn isn't exchanged over the hypertext transfer protocols, but rather via P2P (and often in darknets). If you don't understand the technical specifications of this hair-brained scheme, don't comment on it.

 

[Lentern]

Civil liberties aren't nonsense (in fact they're typically synonymous with human rights) and if you've been at all aware of what I've posted here over the past couple of years, you'd know I'm a staunch civil libertarian.

You also incorrectly state that this internet censorship would block child porn - it wouldn't do anything to the flow of child porn, since child porn isn't exchanged over the hypertext transfer protocols, but rather via P2P (and often in darknets). If you don't understand the technical specifications of this hair-brained scheme, don't comment on it.

The chest beating of Blastus, Sebastion and Scuba steve about civil liberties is what I was calling a nonsense. The outcry every time a government tries to bring in the slightest bit of regulation, claims of chinese communism if a government minister weighs in on Bill Hensons artwork. Ofcourse any limitations on freedom should be imposed reluctantly and only when the pragmatic outcomes are overwhelmingly positive but I didn't expect you to buy into the oratorical outrage about censorship, which has existed in Australia for decades, being extended to the internet.

And I don't recall ever suggesting that the filter will actually stem the tide of child pornography and if I ever did consider it a bit of hyperbole used to make broader point. Personally I thought I admitted from the get go that it wouldn't work and merely suggested that its hardly more oppressive than trying to block the production and use of the ru486 drug amongst other things.

 

[scuba_steve2121]

The chest beating of Blastus, Sebastion and Scuba steve about civil liberties is what I was calling a nonsense. The outcry every time a government tries to bring in the slightest bit of regulation, claims of chinese communism if a government minister weighs in on Bill Hensons artwork. Ofcourse any limitations on freedom should be imposed reluctantly and only when the pragmatic outcomes are overwhelmingly positive but I didn't expect you to buy into the oratorical outrage about censorship, which has existed in Australia for decades, being extended to the internet.

And I don't recall ever suggesting that the filter will actually stem the tide of child pornography and if I ever did consider it a bit of hyperbole used to make broader point. Personally I thought I admitted from the get go that it wouldn't work and merely suggested that its hardly more oppressive than trying to block the production and use of the ru486 drug amongst other things.

refer to my sig

 

[Lentern]

refer to my sig

I wasn't addressing you, Slidey isn't a neoliberal anarchist which is why i'm surprised by him. Although he rejects the title I'd probably classify him as a member of the humanitarian left.

 

[scuba_steve2121]

I wasn't addressing you, Slidey isn't a neoliberal anarchist which is why i'm surprised by him. Although he rejects the title I'd probably classify him as a member of the humanitarian left.

well u referenced my name and called my views on the state nonsense and we cry over any bit of regulation. I'm just pointing out that the intentions of the regulations is almost never the outcome but is often worse then what was trying to be regulated

 

[Lentern]

well u referenced my name and called my views on the state nonsense and we cry over any bit of regulation. I'm just pointing out that the intentions of the regulations is almost never the outcome but is often worse then what was trying to be regulated

Right and if deregulation of credit institutions lead to say the greatest global recession in post war history we might well throw away deregulation even though it was nobly designed to create wealth and increase freedom.

 

[scuba_steve2121]

Right and if deregulation of credit institutions lead to say the greatest global recession in post war history we might well throw away deregulation even though it was nobly designed to create wealth and increase freedom.

economic fallacy try again

 

[Lentern]

economic fallacy try again

Some much more qualified economists than you or I would beg to differ.

 

[scuba_steve2121]

Some much more qualified economists than you or I would beg to differ.

yes qualified Keynesian and Chicago school economists however its still an economic fallacy so try again