B. Law (1 Viewer)

[mattchan]

Hey, i would just like to ask, how dififcult is law at Uni, in terms of the level of english reqiured and the workload?


Thanks

 

[Frigid]

people will dispute this, but i'd imagine: mid-80s in advanced english, a mid-80s UAI, must enjoy reading, must have an argumentative/inquisitive mind, must be a consistent worker or an excellent crammer.

 

[erawamai]

people will dispute this, but i'd imagine: mid-80s in advanced english, a mid-80s UAI,

Mid 80s in advanced English is a a bare minimum. I've noticed that the people who did well at hsc english or did 3 or 4 unit tend to do better or at least do it a little easier. Ability to understand everything you read without constant backtracking makes life much easier in law. Mainly because if you keep backtracking you will be there at your desk reading for 6 hours instead of 3.

must enjoy reading, must have an argumentative/inquisitive mind, must be a consistent worker or an excellent crammer.

I'll add that you must enjoy reading dense material and often hundreds of pages of it...and then being examined on all.

 

[iwannarock]

depends if you actually want to do well in law.

its very hard to get distinctions and hd's in law. you'll have to be damn good at writing essays (which everyone doing law is anyway) but also you'll have to put in a lot of work.

to simply pass law, you can do shit all if you want. as long as you are a good essay writer you can scrape the pass no matter what. you don't even have to do much of the reading. just night before assignments due skim over the important readings write the essay hand it in there's the pass.

this is from personal experience with maq law. i'm guessing sydney would be a little different.

each semester for law i actually pick up the books and do work for only 2 days. thats for the two assessments that there usually are for a usual law semester. that should give you an indication of how easy it can be to pass law.

doing better than a pass/credit. HA good luck with that.

 

[santaslayer]

Good command of the Engrish language is vital. Some judges like to go around in circles when explaining a simple theory.

Workload: Average 80 pages per class in frigid's font. . Depends on the law subject though.

 

[neo o]

Workload: Average 80 pages per class in frigid's font. . Depends on the law subject though.

Whittled down to 80 pages per semester in dot points

 

[mattchan]

I see...Anyone got examples of some readings in Law handy?

Thanks for the help

 

[neo o]

I see...Anyone got examples of some readings in Law handy?

Thanks for the help

You know, I don't think that anyone has actually asked that before!

From what I've seen so far there are three main types of readings/references that you'll refer to:

1) Cases and Statute

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/d.../29.html?query=title(cole+ near+ tweed+heads)

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/d...519.html?query=title(cole+ near+ tweed+heads)

Cole v Tweed Heads is a fairly short HCA judgement, and it's quite funny. Usually you wouldn't read so much from one case, but maybe a few pages worth in a casebook. The first link is to a reported judgement, which basically summarises the relevant facts and points of law, while the second is a transcript.

You won't really "read" statutes, but you will be using them as references in exams etc. The NSW Civil Liabilities Act is a good example of one that you'll be using fairly early on during your tenure as a law student, it's available from http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/cla2002161/

2) Journal Articles (for policy questions or silly subjects like ethics)

Essays written by academics. These are usually found in academic journals, but can be published as thesis, books or in a collection of essays. Unfortunately I can't attach anything, because the limit on the size of attachments is fairly small, but if you know someone at university they could log you into their library resources page and from there you could look up a few journal articles.

As an example, some recent ones that I've used are:

Kronman, 'Contract Law and Distributive Justice' (1991) 89 Yale Law Journal 472.
Michael J. Trebilcock, 'An Introduction to Law and Economics' (1997) 23 Monash University Law Review 123.

The number before the journal name refers to the edition that the essay is in, the first number after the journal name indicates where the essay starts.

3) Readings from Textbooks (and Casebooks)

Generally summaries of points of law, nothing remarkable. If you want an example of a law textbook, buy Laying Down the Law. There's a 99% chance that you'll be using it next year in your foundations course. Some people (Frigid ) also think that Tradition and Change in Australian Law by Patrick Parkinson is quite a good first year textbook. Good examples of case books are Principles of Contract Law by Paterson, Robertson et al and Torts Cases and Commentary by Luntz and Hambly. Casebooks are just extracts from cases with commentary. They often deal with policy questions and other random bits and pieces. Have a flick through one if you go to a university library or a co-op bookstore over the next couple of months.

 

[melsc]

Workload: Average 80 pages per class in frigid's font. . Depends on the law subject though.

LOL everyone uses Frigid's font as a comparison

 

[Demandred]

Hey Matt, this is your typical stuff for a law unit:

- Unit outline/tutorial schudule says you have to do read this, this and this before the next class a case analysis or summary for each of the readings. Case analysis requires you to right down the facts, ratio, authorities, reasoning behind ratio, verdict, and lastly, answer a few questions.

- Easier said than done of course, generally higher authorities from the High Court, House of Lords or the Privy Council use really 'fancy language', don't be surprised to read a page (or even a sentance for that matter) 3 - 4 times to find out what he was talking about. Thankfully some Judges makes easier judgements than others - Murphy J . Don't be daunted by the sheer size of the readings some of the people has posted up here, you have law books, they're basically large extracts of important parts of the judgement, of course, they're always supplementry texts which summarises everything in a few paragraphs or sentances.

- In class, tutor asks everyone a question, discussion ensues, lasts for 2 hours and finish. In my personal opinon, I prefer lectures over these 'socratic' classes, a lecturer laying everything done in stone is a lot better than taking notes from other student's ramblings, you still get some notes from the tutor, but not as much as from a lecture.

- Repeat this twice a week for 13 weeks for each law unit, at the same time, you have to deal with essays, moots and exam preperation. It's fairly hard work, but this is the kind a model law student would do, not all of us would reach this standard, some prefer to be at the bar rather than the bar table.

 

[Raiks]

Just slit your wrists now, it's a better option.

 

[grrl4jesus]

no, although someone who excels at mathematics would be at a great advantage in studying law; your analytical skill is highly correlated to your quantitative intelligence.

 

[c_james]

Any idea how much study/effort is required to maintain a distinction average, specifically at Usyd?

 

[grrl4jesus]

turning up for any non-law subjects

doing the reading for law

 

[santaslayer]

Any idea how much study/effort is required to maintain a distinction average, specifically at Usyd?

uhhh...

consistency?
dont get behind in readings.
ability to read and digest immediately without having to backtrack..
engrish skillz?
good at discussion, esp for CP marks...
analytical skillz..
able to question certain things without being a chicken shit...


the HD comes with natural ability.

 

[xeuyrawp]

good at discussion, esp for CP marks...

I would love to see the individual assesment weighting for the main law units of each uni...

 

[santaslayer]

I would love to see the individual assesment weighting for the main law units of each uni...

Sorry Pwar, I'm not understanding. Do you mean:

10% CP
40% Assessment Task
50% End of session Exam

The above is what UoW usually has. Ms 12 however, has pointed out that UoW may not use CP as a contributing mark anymore.

Or do you mean the individual criteria for CP and it's weightings?

 

[melsc]

good at discussion, esp for CP marks...

perhaps that continuous comment "Melissa participates actively in class discussions" will be a postitive!

 

[erawamai]

- In class, tutor asks everyone a question, discussion ensues, lasts for 2 hours and finish. In my personal opinon, I prefer lectures over these 'socratic' classes, a lecturer laying everything done in stone is a lot better than taking notes from other student's ramblings, you still get some notes from the tutor, but not as much as from a lecture.

Thats not the proper socratic method. A teacher who employs the socratic method well is many many many times better than lectures. The teacher should confirm or deny what the student says. At the end of the discussion of the teacher should clarify etc. I also think its a better method of assessment. A teacher can probhe a student to see it he or she really did do the reading and actually understands the case.

My experience of the socratic method is the teacher explaining the case and then discussing it or asking someone to volunteer to speak about a certain part of it or asking students on ideas of how

The lazy/bad teacher will rely on the students to get the answers. If your teacher is like that it is time to run and change classes.

 

[Demandred]

My experience of the socratic method is the teacher explaining the case and then discussing it or asking someone to volunteer to speak about a certain part of it or asking students on ideas of how

That's what we do most of the time, some people do like it, but personally, I still prefer lectures.

I was talking to some of the UTS law students, they mentioned they still had lectures for Law, can anyone confirm this?