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"Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians? (1 Viewer)

isildurrrr1

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Takes time to hit leadership positions. Same goes for why there aren't that many women hitting leadership positions as compared to men. I think this generation of azns will hit the tippy top quite soon.
 

SylviaB

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Takes time to hit leadership positions. Same goes for why there aren't that many women hitting leadership positions as compared to men. I think this generation of azns will hit the tippy top quite soon.
whites are better leaders than asians and men are better leaders than women

there will be more asians in leadership positions in the future but not in complete proportion to the workforce
 

SylviaB

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also, me and you heads up name your motherfuckin stakes
 

Zen2613

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Re: "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

Im not saying it should be that extreme. However, I believe the HSC and University should count for a lot more. I dont like the whole "People only care about your ATAR for two weeks after your results" mentality. The system should reward those who do well much more and should make it much more difficult for those that dont. I think Australia should become more of a meritocracy as opposed to the current state of mediocrity.
I got a 97 atar, I work a McJob and I completely disagree with you. HSC marks don't mean a single thing in the real world because there are way to many Uni grads who can shit on hsc grads in terms of 'skills'. Also the atar only measures how good you were. If you did physics, chem, mx2 and eng adv, none of those subjects are useful in the real world unless you go to uni. If you did society and culture, english extension 2, visual arts and music, in those fields marks don't matter, it's all about social skills. Try asking any hsc grads if the 'skills' they learnt were not solely for the purpose of getting into uni (or maybe also for self interests) and were useless jobwise.
 

isildurrrr1

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why are people so obsessed with their atar lol. You're only as good as your last trade. If you had a shit performance at uni guess what employers look at most.
 

eyeseeyou

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why are people so obsessed with their atar lol. You're only as good as your last trade. If you had a shit performance at uni guess what employers look at most.
Because their ATAR is their entry to uni...why else would it not be?
 

SylviaB

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okay, great, so once you're in uni its meaningless then
 

Nailgun

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Ahhh victim complex at its finest. How DARE those pesky Asians disagree with my VALID and REASONED contributions to this discussion!



lmao you're in luck
hey good job that bit was pree impressive
 

enoilgam

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Re: "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

I got a 97 atar, I work a McJob and I completely disagree with you. HSC marks don't mean a single thing in the real world because there are way to many Uni grads who can shit on hsc grads in terms of 'skills'. Also the atar only measures how good you were. If you did physics, chem, mx2 and eng adv, none of those subjects are useful in the real world unless you go to uni. If you did society and culture, english extension 2, visual arts and music, in those fields marks don't matter, it's all about social skills. Try asking any hsc grads if the 'skills' they learnt were not solely for the purpose of getting into uni (or maybe also for self interests) and were useless jobwise.
That misses the entire point of my post. My argument is that the system should be designed in such a way that HS and University carry more weight, so that it provides a much higher reward and incentive for those that do well.
 

BandSixFix

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Re: "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

That misses the entire point of my post. My argument is that the system should be designed in such a way that HS and University carry more weight, so that it provides a much higher reward and incentive for those that do well.
but why should our existence be based on how well we regurgitate information?
 

enoilgam

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Re: "Bamboo Ceiling": Where are all the asians?

but why should our existence be based on how well we regurgitate information?
Again that's missing the point, Im not debating the merits of the HSC or Uni as indicators for success, Im saying that performance in education should have more of an impact on your trajectory in the professional space. As someone who works in HR, I know that the HSC/Uni arent good indicators of workplace skill, I would argue that the system needs to change so that they are better indicators.
 

SylviaB

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No, that's really dumb. Your trajectory in a professional space should be based on your productivity and the economic value you bring to your employer, which is largely how things work now. And it makes sense, because you're providing value to the company and the economy as a whole and get rewarded for it accordingly. Acing exams bakes no bread and its value is only in making people learn things and giving the world an indication of your intelligence. It's a means to an end, and the end is economic productivity.

If there isn't a clear correlation between academic performance and professional aptitude, then why does it matter if people do better in university or not?

People who do really badly at school and in their careers aren't doing so because of a lack of incentives. They're either dumb, lazy and/or uninterested in success (ignoring cases of genuinely challenging childhood circumstances). Your proposed changes won't make a difference to them.
 

SylviaB

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the difference exists because of the enormous size difference between australia and america

america has around 15 times as many people than australia

Australia has 43 universities, america has over 2000

there's simply no way that australia's "system" could exist in america

a top company would be considering applications from potentially tens of thousands of people for a single position

If australia had that many people and that many universities, then your university would matter enormously

and the value of a university has very little to do with the actual teaching quality. Harvard students are valued because first of all they usually have fantastic extra curricular and internship experience available to them, and secondly harvard has very strict admissions policy and so companies know that anyone going to harvard (or any ivy league) is going to be very smart and capable to begin with so its a very good way to filter out candidates for a job. The average intellectual/whatever standard of somebody who made it into harvard to begin with is going to be so much higher than XYZ state university that for the most sought after companies, it's not even worth considering applications for other universities

If australia's population were to expand massively over the next century such that there were many multiples of the number of university age students compared to today, then the admissions policies at sydney and melbourne would (assuming they dont massively expand their intakes, which would be unlikely) become extremely strict and the value of an education at these institutions would increase hugely because there would be so many more people applying for jobs and all the new universities opening up to accomodate population increases would be much worse than syd and melb
 

Occupied

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It has nothing to do with a "fair go". Academic marks alone are not a reliable indicator of future performance and employers know this. They seek people with strong communication skills, leadership potential and the right culture/personality.
Implying that "strong communication skills, leadership potential and...personality" is somehow determined by your race.

lel discrimination at its finest right there :spin:
 

SylviaB

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are you stupid or something? My point was OBVIOUSLY that academic marks alone are a poor indicator of workplace performance and there isn't a perfect correlation between ATAR scores and desirable qualities and therefore we shouldn't expect top ATAR performers to necessarily excel in e.g. the business world

but anyway yes of course there is a correlation between race and personality, how is that even a remotely controversial concept?

let's say though that we are living in your fantasy land where all personal traits are distributed perfectly evenly between all racial groups: why would you expect overrepresentation of asians in certain roles? After all, their personal traits are on average no different to any other group, right?
 

mrstripedshades

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Employment and advancement in the fields they especially are talking about has a lot to do with social skills, charisma and drive.
 

seremify007

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I think what's a more interesting perspective on this topic is the diversity/composition at different levels within organisations.
 

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