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Originally posted by tWiStEdD
Fellas, fellas, fellas...
I'm taking time away from my exension history to do this, so I shall be breif.
a) The Universal Declarations of Human Rights is an international convention, and not applicable to Australian Law
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http://www.unhchr.ch/udhr/miscinfo/carta.htm
" On 10 December 1948, at the Palais de Chaillot in Paris, the 58 Member States of the United Nations General Assembly adopted the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, with 48 states in favour and eight abstentions (two countries were not present at the time of the voting). General Assembly resolution 217 A (III) of 10 December 1948, which proclaimed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, was adopted as follows: In favour: Afghanistan, Argentina, Australia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Burma, Canada, Chile, China,Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Denmark, the Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador,Ethiopia, France, Greece, Guatemala, Haiti, Iceland, India, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Liberia, Luxembourg, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Pakistan, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Siam (Thailand), Sweden, Syria, Turkey, United Kingdom, United States, Uruguay, Venezuela. Abstaining: Byelorussian SSR, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Saudi Arabia, Ukrainian SSR, Union of South Africa, USSR, Yugoslavia. The General Assembly proclaimed the Declaration as a "common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations", towards which individuals and societies should "strive by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance"."
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b) This thread is about a ban on gay marriages, and not about the concept of a homosexual couple being a 'family' (which, as per the Family Law Act 1975 (Cth), includes ANY sort of domestic relationship from caregivers (Private Nurses etc) to De Facto Relationships)
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This thread has covered a very broad sense of what is considered to be involved in not only the banning of gay marriages, but also many other debates around that topic, one of which is family and the definitions of such as relating to society today. Threads go off topic... it happens.
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c) Marriage is a special sort of relationship; it is exclusive to a man and a woman as per the Marriage Act 1961 (Union of a man and a woman entered into voluntarily, to the exclusion of all others and for life)
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For something to be a 'special sort of relationship' does it now require legal backing to show its validity as 'special'? And yes it is 'special' because it is exclusive.. its like one of those resort/golf clubs that are 'exclusive' to the rich and those considered... the right sort of people. It doesn't mean that its right that only those people are allowed access to these facilites, and many people have argued and debated about how 'right' it is to have places like that where it is 'exclusive' because they do discriminate against ordinary people by only catering to those they want to accept(this is not an argument about catering to the highlife or those who can afford it... money isnt the issue here obviously). Which in a way is what this about. Homosexuals are being discriminated against because they aren't seen as the 'right sort of people' and in fact at times they aren't even considered to be a part of the human race.. much less worthy of being allowed to take part in a ceremony which is only for a man and a woman.. because they (homosexuals) just aren't the right sort of people. Churches can go make marriage as special and as whatever the fk they want, but the government shouldn't be able to make the decision for everyone.
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d) You all need to accept that marriage is a special comittment between a man and a woman, a SACRED comittment.
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'marriage is a special commitment', i don't think anyone denies this. Its a cultural symbol.. its a social truth. But what is being argued is that as 'SACRED' as it is, marriage isn't the secure stronghold people would like to see it as. The definition of marriage needs no enforcement, it can ask for none because everyone has a different definition. Culture decides it, society, people themselves decide it... their religion decides it.. but the law shouldn't have a say in something that is mainly a personal decision. I don't need to accept your opinion about anything, neither does anyone else. Thats just a fact, so why should the government be able to push THEIR opinion on us? Teachers can't do it, and to an extent our parents and family can't. Your parents and family can try, but in the end its up to you. Teachers can lose their jobs over it. So what gives the government the right to force upon us its own ideas. We are a democracy we aren't in a dictatorship, the government is mean to reflect our ideas and its not meant to get on its own high horse and use a sensitive issue like this to A) win the election B) cause more controversy or C)enforce the conservatives ideas upon everyone regardless of religion, culture or anything else.
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e) Tradition -such as marriage- is extremely important to the stability of society; it binds us together as one, and ensures that there is some things for men and some things for women and some things that specifically involve both of them.
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If tradition was so important to our society then wouldn't there be more respect paid to the indigenous traditions which were here before colonisation? And there comes a point where traditions get old, and people move on and create new ones. Traditions aren't always right, aren't always correct and aren't even always legal.. it doesn't mean that everyone should support a tradition that may not belong to them. "ensures that there is some things for men and some things for women and some things that specifically incolve both of them' What are you on? I mean tradition is important to the social construct sure... but that last part is ridiculous! Its like saying that FGM (female genital mutilation) is a tradition for women and its right because its one of those 'things for women'... and since when has tradition ever said that these things must be genderised? These are mens traditions, theses are womens.. and these ones here must be done by both. Think outside the box that you seem to live in. Because that box mustn't have seen the light of day for decades!
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f) If you want homosexuals to be able to 'show their love' or 'make their relationship/commitment public' then an alternative needs to be reached.
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Because 'they just aren't the sort of people' for marriage? They aren't good enough for marriage? Marriage is too sacred a commitment to be given to people like that? It sounds like something you would have heard during the segregation period.. or even further back in medieval times.
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g) Access to the adoption of children and birth technologies should be regulated by an independent body, and granted with respect to circumstances such as need and the best interests of the child. NB: It is in the best interests of a child to have both a mother and a father; not two mothers or two fathers.
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NB: Since when have the best interests of the child ever been up to you?
The best interests of the child lie wherever they lie, irrespective of the sexuality of its care givers. Homosexuals are just as good as heterosexuals, who are just as good as bisexuals and transexuals. Sexuality doesn't come into it. For some children the best interests lie with their mother (single parent example here) for some its their father. And they grow up devoid of a father or mother, maybe they grow up with their mothers string of boyfriends, and dads line of whores... who knows. But none of 'the childs best interests' are dependant on the sexuality of a couple/single parent. Stability, responsibility and etc are what makes it 'in the best interests' and if a homosexual couple can match that criteria then good on them, they deserve the right to a child. Perhaps even more than alot of heterosexual couples that can be made examples of.
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Please, think about the effects of what you're considering. Do not blindly expect that to do the 'right thing' by one group is to do the 'right thing' by others. 'Others' includes, existing or potential, parents, children, friends, extended family, siblings and society in general. Weigh everything up before making a judgement.
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"Do not blindly expect that to do the 'right thing' by one group is to do the 'right thing' by others" By this you mean that by doing the 'right thing' by homosexuals that in some way shape or form heterosexuals will suffer. But yet you don't consider that by doing the 'right thing' as seen by those against homosexual marriage will mean that homosexuals will have to suffer. That doesn't bother you at all to think that these 'others' that you talk about may or may not be themselves homosexual and want children or want to marry, want to have lives and live like everyone else.
You don't care that they might suffer because you're not one of them? Or because you just don't give a shit, you tell everyone your opinion on the issue and then thats the entirety of your involvement in the issue. The issue doesn't affect you as you see it, but you'll jump on the band wagon anyway and spread your ideas just because you can. Regardless of the real people out there who are affected by this and regardless of what is really happening. You see one side of a multifaceted issue which affects more people than you or i could ever know, but yet ... i find it difficult to express how blind sighted alot of people are. I am well aware of my narrow mindedness in this issue but yet i know that the issue is going to continue alot longer than to the next election and much longer than it stays in the public lime light. I have been apart of this issue for a long time, how long will you and the others like you stay?
NB: That last part was an observation not only on the comment made at the end of the post , but also on the general thread participants themselves and how the issue may or may not affect them and their reasoning behind 'jumping on the bandwagon' so to speak.