Basic Response for Genre Theory Q, Problem with 2 Q's HELP HELP HELP (1 Viewer)

[Stuwy85]

Hi guys i need some help. If we get 2 essay questions in the paper one will ask us to talk about Crime Fiction whereas the other to talk about Genre.

The first should have us reffering to our texts in order to assert how they have conformed or subverted the conventions of the CF genre. Then we should talk about the vehicle of CF allowing other focii to be explored due to the use (or rejection) of these conventions. This focus is ussually on the society depicted in the text or at least elements of society. (am i right here, what else could it be on?) So i think we need to talk about the CF Genre and its conventions that are used to portray a society???

Assuming this is correct though i am faced with a problem when moving on to the second question which is focused on Genre as a whole.

If faced with a question similar to the CSHAA (I think) trial : Discuss the Validity of Genre, then my plan of attack (from a CF perspective [is it wrong to focus on it from this way] would revolve around the idea that the validity of genre cant be ensured due to the ever changing nature of its conventions and rules. I go on to elaborate that this constant change or adaption is caused by the genre's need to avoid "literary stagnancy" and also appeal to an audience of a modern context. I talk about the following ideas:

-Dupin and Holmes as the first detectives. How their use of logic and reasoning reflected the victorian belief's of the era: that logic, deduction and science could solve problems.

-The development of this style into Christie's Cosi school; the creation of middle class "Closed World" societies upset by and outsider very much reflects both her own middle class belief's but also those of the context of early 20th century Britain (where the books were written). Connect to The Real Inspector Hounds subversion of these values.

-The emergence of Hard Boiled crime fiction to portray an American society rife with Capitalistic intentions and Organised crime in early 20th century America. Having the moral knight in shining armour walking the streets as the lone resistance to corruption. Talk about The Big Sleep and Marlowe.

-Connect to Film Noir, constructed in the era of both world wars and the depression which gives the texts their cynical, dark and shadowy feel.

-Talk about emergence of Black, female detectives as society progresses into post-modern, equality views relate to Smilla's Feeling For Snow.

So in essence I'm saying the constant change in society and the need of Genre to continue adapting to that society means that Genre as a concept can never be completely valid although the adaptions will share some common elements. (is this ok?)

Thats the essay plan but the problem is this. If we get a question based around society in Q1 as i believe we will, wont the fact that i am focussing Q2 on society mean that i should just get out the carbon paper to save myself regurgitating the same essay twice? I'm hoping that Q1's focus on the society within the text distinguishes it from Q2's discussion of external society, but i still think there are some very common links between the two. The only difference I can see is that in Q1 i will be focussing on the texts in alot more depth while in Q2 they will only be used to back up my argument on Genre.

The jist of my question is, can I write the essay that i just out lined above for Q2 and then talk about similar concerns with society in Q1 (albeit within the text and with a greater focus on the texts rather than genre) without it getting me into trouble.

PLEASE HELP, I AM LOSING IT HERE.

 

[Nick]

there should only be one essay question..

the other "should" be a creative thing..

and i think just because conventions adapt over time, doesnt mean the genre is invalid..

Crime fiction is used because its such a broad and flexible genre, you can use it in almost any way to display the same characteristics, (crime, investigation, detectives etc) while maintaing hegemony with the popular conventions of the time, like if everyone is using females in their novels, you can have a female detective, if people are afraid of communisn cos its the mid 1950s, the detective can be anti-communist..

the composer is of course going to be influenced by their context, not only because they are immersed in it, but because they want people to read or watch their text, so its gotta either appeal to or clearly challenge the popular ideas/values of the time.

in my essay i just talk about how hte genre is constantly shifting to adapt to these altering values, but it still remains true to hte central conventions..

 

[Nick]

oh and btw, you should have a look at the 2002/2001 HSC papers, they will not just ask for 2 essays. and they are not limited in what they can ask about..

apart from taht, the stuff you;re writing about seems good.. make sure you are aware that htey could surprise you in hte exam tho, be ready to adapt it to whatever they ask

 

[Stuwy85]

thanks man, yeah i had a look at those essays before i posted, its just that in trials i got 1 essay which focused on crime fiction, and then we had to write a feature article on genre (which foccussed around genre theory [so basically all the information of an essay in a different form]) our teacher said it is possible though that we could get 2 essays. The only certainties are that 1 question will focus on crime fiction whereas the next has to focus on genre. The creative thing of the last year's HSC exemplified your understanding of genre by having you compose a text from that genre (that was obvious sorry).

What ur saying though is that i should take all this genre theory crap and apply it to the first question (crime fiction rather than genre).

Also with that question on validity, i didnt elaborate fully i started off quoting some dudes saying that genre is the repetition of conventions over and over, therefore this does not apply to the constantly evolving CF. Are you saying this isnt a good idea, should i try and pull back from the definite "Genre is invalid in relation to CF" to a more neutral "questions can be raised as to the overall consistency of genre, yet the re-occurance of certain key features lends some credit to the Genre's validity." ???

Thanks heaps man you're helping me out a great great deal.

 

[Nick]

ok first off.. as far as i know they wouldnt ask you to write 2 essays.. they will have 2 questions that we have to answer though, one will be for all hte modules in the Genre category, the other will be just for those doing Crime Fiction.

either one could be the question in which you have to refer to all your texts, you'll know cos it will say, Refer to TWO or THREE or watever PRESCRIBED texts.. this one will probably involve discussing genre theory and stuff in relation to your texts.

the other should be more general, like, compose an interview with a character from one of your texts etc, in whihc youll display your knowledge of hte conventions of the genre.


with your other question, i dont think its a good idea to just definitely say that genre is invalid to CF, cos hte whole module is about genre and CF is a genre.. you should definitely raise questions about it, just make sure you link all your texts into the characteristics of hte genre.

talk to your teacher if you want more detailed help.. if you are already talking about genre theories and consistency, then thats a high standard and you'll be fine.


i dont know for sure about the first part about whats gonna be in the test, because they can supposedly do anything..
when you see the test you'll know what to do and where to apply all the genre theory and textual discussion..

 

[Stuwy85]

ok well thanks for your help. I'm still having trouble seeing how I can apply Genre theory to some questions asking us to talk about our prescribed texts. I can see how i could discuss the genre of crime fiction, but insights on genre theory as a whole would go unused. In terms of practice essay's are you suggesting that i need to focus on a creative piece, a prescribed text piece and then a separate genre theory piece. Its just that in my Genre theory essay so far my references to prescribed texts are quite small whereas in my prescribed piece i focus entirely on the texts and dont mention genre theory at all (although alot of it has been implied through my discussion of society and the like without actually mentioning "genre theory" explicitly. Sorry this is taking so long but yeah i just want to make sure, thanks heaps again.

 

[Nick]

you should merge your genre theory stuff with your prescribed (and dont forget related texts) stuff..

the essay should focus primarily on your texts, but u should include bits of genre theory in there to contribute to an argument.

genre theory will essentially just be hte conclusions drawn from your study of the texts, and youll probly have the odd quote from a critic or theorist or something.. but focus on your texts.

you cant really just prepare things for it knowing that that is what you are gonna write..

but doing those practices is always good..

you should know all your texts pretty well, read a few of the sheets or whatever you ahve on genre theory so you can throw in a few quotes, and have a think about the genre and some hypotheses you can make up and argue in your essay..

for example if you're talkign abt Real Inspector Hound, you might say that such and such a theorist/critic says that subversions and parody are central to conveying the conventions of a genre..

and you might say that this text links with Agatha Christie's classic golden age crime fiction through satire.

so you incorporate theories about genre into discussion of your texts..

it would definitely be a bad idea to just talk about theory and neglect your texts.


and yeah having a creative piece prepared would be good if you got the time, otherwise just draw up a plot line or some ideas that you could work during hte exam.. they might not ask you to write a creative story anyway..

 

[Stuwy85]

Nick mate, your a champion thanks heaps for your help i have at least a better idea now of what i am doing (still not perfect), i would have been lost without your help. Good luck with the exam but you sound like you dont need it.

Does neone else have opinions or ideas on the issues/questions raised in this thread???

 

[elfgal]

hey stuwy
well it seems like nick covered it all
i think what you may have been confused about is the difference between the crime fiction genre (specifically) and questions about the concept of genre in general. both are possible. i don't think there will necessarily b one essay question on each (in fact i think this is unlikely)
if the q asks you to talk about the crime fic genre specifically, you dont really need to talk about the concept/nature of genre - or genre theory (but you can if you want to, just dont overdo it). just talk about the conventions of the genre and how they're applied/subverted in your texts.
if the q is a generic q for all genre students you will need to form an argument about the nature of genre. this is where genre theory comes in. however, like nick said DO NOT JUST DO THIS AND IGNORE YOUR TEXTS! the best way to approach this kind of question would be to set out some basic ideas about the nature of genre, discuss them by using the crime fiction genre as a case study and back them up with close reference to your prescribed/related texts
hope i didnt confuse you more! (if i did, well...disregard this msg )

oh and btw, the creative q last year wasnt about genre theory (in general) - it required you to know the conventions of your genre, but that was it really. the catholic trial q is an example of a general gen theory q, as u already pointed out.
yeah, both the qs last year were genre specific...i think..

 

[Nick]

i just gotta say for fear of teh BOS doing something weird or me being misinformed, you should definitely talk to your teacher or ring the advice line (they are very good) if you are unsure about anything

definitely ring the advice line..

 

[Stuwy85]

thanks, will do

 

[Meow]

Oh my God, you guys are scaring the shit out of me! What's all this genre theory stuff?!?!

All we've done is CF texts in class, now I feel like I know shit all...

 

[Stuwy85]

meow, wat u just said described how i felt like 2 nights ago, theres not much to it, most of it is implied, its really just alot of intellectual wank. the basic premise (as far as my understanding goes) is that genre will adapt to reflect to values of society, so you just look at the context of ur texts and relate it to their ideas and focus etc.

Elfgal or Nick, seeing as you guys have been such a great help, i was wondering if i could send you a copy of an essay i did and just get you to tell me what you think. If i could have an email address or something i would really appreciate it and i will do the same for u if u want me to, is this ok? Please let me know.

 

[Stuwy85]

Guys just rang the advice line and they told me that we are not guaranteed to have 1 creative piece despite the fact it has been included the last 2 years. Its possible we could get 2 essays. Whats more the subject of these essays can be one general genre and one CF specific, or 2 CF specific, or 2 general genre.

The other thing, which im sure most of u already knew is that you dont need to do 2 print texts.

btw neone wanna help me out with trading an essay or too, id really appreciate it.

 

[badlysketched]

man i'm feeling dumb... see, i think i know what you guys are talking about, but just the language you all use is so... intellectual. i was reading at snails pace and rereading just to follow what you meant. i guess once i start revising it'll become clear. i start tomorrow... i'm such a slack arse, but hopefully i can cram and do average.

thanx for this thread guys. u really helped things be more laid out in my mind. i know what i should study for now, even if u do write like u are psycho brainiac people from the planet X.

*ponders how shes gonna compare with the people in this course and begins to panic*

plz let there be dumb people,
plz let there be dumb people,
plz let there be dumb people,
plz....

 

[Stuwy85]

Relax badly sketched, i cant speak for the others but everything i write is a bunch of intellectual wank (just like genre theory) that has little substance and just looks good. You can portray the same kind of things with less fancy language without jeopardising your marks as long as what ur saying is clear, whats more simplicity might actually work for u as some dumbass marker might get caught up in the technical nature and endless wank of an essay like mine.

What i would recomend as important though is terminology, mention specific things like "Genre Theory" and the proper names for techniques or conventions because they give the impression that u know you're shit. I'm prolly just as clueless as you, im just hoping all my technical babble (and i assure u there are those who will write far more technical babling essays) will impress the marker (like it impressed you) so much that they wont actually get to the substance of the essay before they mark it.

By the way i should remind you that i was writing asking for help here so i too feel fucked, so you're not alone.

oh and btw, my class is full of dumb people who can't even pronounce genre (they say it "Ginire") so relax just write coherently and show ur understanding and you will be fine.

 

[McLake]

-Nick is on to the right ideas

- Yes, they CAN ask 2 essay questions, but they arn't likely to (remember, in the 2002 paper you could answer Q2 as an essay if you wanted to).

- I am happy to read any essays that you send to me (as I have said before).

- I will satart a special thread about genre theory

 

[badlysketched]

thanx guys... just to clarify, genre theory is basically how the values/themes/conventions change to suit the context right? If thats the case i've been doing that without ever hearing the term 'genre theory' before. i tend to link my texts through how women are portrayed in the text... eg i'll say "as women have liberated themselves in society, showing that they can be as strong and capable as any man, the crime fiction genre has reflected these social values. in earlier movies such as dial m for murder, the female victim is attacked and manages to escape, killing her attacker, however she then seems to lose all control over her body, fainting and crying, screaming into the sky for her husbands help as she falls onto her knees. This weakness immediately cancels out the strength and bravery she had within the struggle and protrays women as helpless, defenceless and dependant on men for their strength and courage. In later text such as the skull beneath the skin, the protagonist cordelia shows both her intelligence and stength as she blah blah blah" whatever... sorry got a bit carried away (my language is better in the real thing! honest!!! that was dodgy!) but yeh... would linking each text like that be enough for genre theory... as in saying the values of women have changed as the context has changed? or would i need to talk about other stuff? if so what other stuff can i talk about... i was trying to think of an example of what else i could talk about and i'm stumped!!! maybe about just how the crime scenes have become more gory due to a different social and technological climate (ie no longer post war and the development of forensics)? argh!!! my brain keeps ulternating! one second is like "relax u know it!" the next its like "PANIIIIIC!!!" and then a second later its like "give up its hopeless... too much to learn" and immediately after its like "its not that much... get cracking girlie!!!" *sigh* its my last test, soooooo tempting to give up!!!

only one day left and i'm FREEEEEEEEE!!!! good luck everyone!!!

 

[Stuwy85]

badly sketched you do understand what genre theory is and you're approach is pretty good, i adress the portray of women in CF in my essay too, as for actually mentioning Genre Theory, its prolly not essential if youre talking about all the concepts it entails, but it might be worthwhile paying it lip service and just mentioning it a few times, because it is wanky and appears sophisticated.

Despite this though it might be better to look at it from more angles if u could. if you look at each context and era of each text and what was happening, and what was the dominant value system of the era, its not hard to see how it was applied to your text. If you only intereperet it from a womens perspective you risk alienating some of the content in your texts, or if u include it it will take the continuity and consistency out of your essay, i.e. if the focus is on women then it might be hard to talk about the seedy underworld of the big sleep without it seeming out of place, definitely use the idea of women but make it secondary to the idea that texts reflect value systems of the era. in other words use it as an example of a reflection of value systems having the principles of genre theory as your focus. Dont look at the portrayal of women and neglect other examples of societal values in CF.

If you want (you will have to be quick), send me prvt msg with ur email and i will send u a copy of an essay that shows my approach to a question (i cant guarantee its the best though) and u can look at it and tell me wat u think, if u want to send me some of ur stuff i will look at that and tell u wat i think, but u will have to be quick as the exam is only 18 hours away. lol

 

[maple_leaf_matt]

i was reading the syllabus before caus u had some good insights stuwy, but they can ask you two questions on genre, or two questions on your elective (RT, CF etc). or a combo, which is what they usually do