Beware the religious invasion of our polity (1 Viewer)

[Not-That-Bright]

Moonlight sonata, to claim that the abortion issue is 'men vs women' is simply stupid.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Moonlight sonata, to claim that the abortion issue is 'men vs women' is simply stupid.

No, that is not what I said at all. When I said "women first" I meant that they are driving for something fundamentally important to their sex over party politics.

 

[Generator]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,15011010^28737,00.html

Under a succession of popes since the 1940s, Opus Dei has built up a formidable organisation and amassed assets estimated at more than $3 billion, including its $US50 million ($65 million) US headquarters on New York's Lexington Avenue, which has separate entrances for men and women.

Of the 83,000 Opus Dei members, Australia accounts for only 500, even though it took hold in Sydney in 1963. About 400 of those, called supernumeraries, are like the Bookallils. The rest, known as numeraries, are single and celibate.

As conservative Catholics, Opus Dei members accept the church's rulings against contraception, sex before marriage, abortion and stem-cell research. They are especially devoted to the papacy. Their conservative values make them potential targets and recruits for the Liberal Party, particularly in NSW, where its membership is strongest.

Opus Dei's Australian arm is run by an American, George Rossman, who is based in Roseville on Sydney's north shore. It exerts its influence on mainly young Catholics through its pastoral care at Sydney schools such as Tangara (girls) and Redfield (boys), run by a parents' foundation, Pared, with an Opus Dei priest as chaplain. It also runs Warrane, a residential college for men, at the University of NSW.

 

[spell check]

collages.

is it made from papier mache? or just magazine pictures stuck on paper (hack)

 

[Not-That-Bright]

No, that is not what I said at all. When I said "women first" I meant that they are driving for something fundamentally important to their sex over party politics.

Again, while abortion issues are important to their sex, you must realise that it splits fairly down the middle between men and women when it comes to abortion.
I.e. it's wrong to say that a womens 'right' to on-demand abortions is something that is fundamentally important to all women.

 

[spell check]

you must realise that it splits fairly down the middle between men and women when it comes to abortion.
I.e. it's wrong to say that a womens 'right' to on-demand abortions is something that is fundamentally important to all women.

i take it you've conducted empirical research in this field?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

ROFL GOOD call spell check!!!

I'm going by the polling data from various people in america on the issue of abortion, i dunno if we're any different here.

 

[spell check]

i have research that shows that most women do want a right to choose regarding their own bodies

you show me your research and i'll show you mine

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Oh wow, well u can find ur research and i can find mine (if i could be bothered).
What result do you hope to achieve from this?

 

[malkin86]

Perhaps some way, shape or form of women entering this discussion about abortion?

 

[MoonlightSonata]

it's wrong to say that a womens 'right' to [...] abortions is something that is fundamentally important to all women.

Firstly, I clearly did not say important to all women, explicitly or by implication.

Secondly, but rather innocently this time, you interpreted "fundamentally important to their sex" as "fundamentally important in the eyes of [women]." My meaning was intended to be "fundamentally important for [women]. I can understand how you got this, it was a bit ambiguous and I could have phrased it better - sorry.

Nevertheless, my view is that regardless of whether or not a majority of number of women believe it is their right, it ought to be their right. That is a separate question, to be sure. But I think that the female politicians pushing against the anti-abortion issue recognise the importance for women of having that right, and hence can be seen to be acting in the interests of women over political interests.

 

[Sarah]

Economic rationalist society does not support the notion of women having children. I am sure that many people would have more children if they could. If they had the money. But to survive in modern Sydney BOTH people need to be working. To pull a women away from work or her career based on often dogmatic religious interpretations and reposition them in the home often (with the amendments to the sex discrimination Act) with no prospect of returning to the same job is sad.

The ability of a female to control her reproduction, without limiting her inner human trait to be sexual, is pivotal to society both morally and economically. IF their was paid maternity leave with a guarantee of a return to the same job people would be having more children.

Yes i agree. It would seem that in monetary terms (hope i don't sound cold here), children are more of a liability than an asset due to costs associated with having them e.g childcare, education.

The association between women, work and putting on hold her career is due to expectations that women are the ones to place a career on hold. But why this assoication between women and career and maternity leave? In my opinion, a shift in attitude is needed whereby both parents (regardless of gender) are given the opportunity to participate in the upbringing of a child without having to forgo job security. I don't know what the legislation regarding maternity leave is so i don't know how fathers are affected by it.

Paid maternity leave is one provision to enable women to have children and a career. What is needed are other support structures e.g affordable childcare and education to allow for women to have children and a career

 

[Not-That-Bright]

As if employers are ever going to hire young girls then

You'd expect people to hire a young girl, if they have to pay her maternity leave AND guarentee her a job? Why is it so sad to not have a job waiting for them?

Asquithian OR Sarah, are either of you planning on becomming employers? Because if you are.. I wanna work for you! Why wait for legislation?

Seriously I hear all this whinging about job security, outsourcing, etc etc.. I just fear what these people would be like in HARDER times. The world has changed, australia is a part of the global economy.

 

[Generator]

The world has changed, australia is a part of the global economy.

We must increase productivity, no matter the cost!

There is more to life than merely being a competitive entity within the global economy through 'unfettered' liberalism at the level of the nation-state, Not-That-Bright (not that anyone seems to care).

 

[Not-That-Bright]

We must increase productivity, no matter the cost!

There is more to life than merely being a competitive entity within the global economy through 'unfettered' liberalism at the level of the nation-state, Not-That-Bright (not that anyone seems to care).

Oh of course, but i think there comes a point where you're doing TOO much damage to your productivity...

 

[Riewe]

While i do respect the rights of women, i cannot agree that it is their right to terminate a life inside them. However i do agree with contraceptive methods like condoms and th pill as i realise that for most people abstinence is out of the question, and having unprotected sex carries more risk nowadays other than pregnancy.

But at the time of conception, a human life is created. What gives women the right to end this life that never got a chance to start? I believe there has always been a clause that a terminancy is acceptable if there are grave and fatal risks for the mother and child during pregnancy, so if there is a risk and abortion is needed to save the life of the mother, then so be it.

But it seems that most abortions occur because of inconvenice, like it isn't the right time for a child. But unfortunately that is the whole reason to have sex, or so it used to be. To have children. But even though it would be general knowledge that having sex can result in a pregnancy, this thought should always be considered.

And what of the right of the child? Does it not have a say in this? If someone wanted to end your life,, wouldn't you want to say "Hold on a moment, what do you think you're doing?' And this is why abortion shouldn't be an option.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Asquithian, maybe then i'll move to the country where housing is cheaper?

The point is... i'll find my way to survive.

How will you (as an employer) survive in a global business environment, with these type of regulations placed on you?

 

[Trippendicular]

Why do you consider employers and business as more important than normal human beings? The world shouldn't be geared to cater for the needs of employers

 

[Generator]

While i do respect the rights of women, i cannot agree that it is their right to terminate a life inside them.
...
What gives women the right to end this life that never got a chance to start?
...
And what of the right of the child?

It's the right to choose/control their own bodies, not the right to terminate a life. As for the rights of the 'child'/what may become a child... What about the rights of the woman?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Because, if the economy runs strong, in general, people's lives will be better.