Building a new computer...need some vetting. (2 Viewers)

[Excalibur_]

Here's a revised spec...

Coolermaster Mystique 632S Steel Black w/ Window $115.00
SilverStone ST60F 600w Modular PSU SLI Ready $168.00
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 $303.00
Gigabyte GA-P35-DQ6 775 $339.00
2 x 2 x 1GB OCZ Platinum 6400 EL XTC R2 2Gb $390.00
2 x Seagate 7200.10 500Gb 16Mb SATA II $406.00
XFX 8800GTS xXx 550mhz 640Mb PCI-E $675.00
2x Samsung 226BW 2ms 22" WideScreen LCD Monitor $950.00
Pioneer 212 D/Layer 18x DVD+-RW SATA NO S/WARE Black $55.00

Grand Total $3,401.00

I've already blown my budget by $400...but that's not too much of an issue. That motherboard gives me support for SLI (?) - seeing as it has two high speed PCI-E slots..

The alternative is spending an extra $300 to get either the Antec Nine Hundred / GB Aurora 3D + 768MB 8800GTX. Is it worth it? I'm seriously considering this looking at the benchmarks between GTS/GTX

 

[Collin]

Yes, the performance of the GTX scales pretty well from a pricing point of view. I've always held the view that if need the extra power and you can afford it, then it's definitely worth it. The GTS and GTX are both great purchases - unlike the Ultra, which is a rip-off.

 

[Excalibur_]

Yeah, it's a matter of 'I can spend it, but I don't want to cause I have other things I need to buy'. I have to buy a new table to hold all this shit in (as well as the fact that I hate my current table...the most unergonomic P.O.S ever).

I've always had the belief that SLI (like quad-core) doesn't really live up to the hype unless you're doing some serious graphical work. Like, unless games have been written to support it you won't see much out of it (otherwise it would just draw out of one GPU?).

How's the new spec like now?

 

[Collin]

SLi will inherently be less efficient than single-card solutions, due to reasons not hard to envisage intuitively. There will always be overhead penalties to performance due to the necessity to allocate what data to which video card. Of course better algorithms and hardware design can improve performance and result in better utilisation of available resources (as we have observed with SLi technology over the years, and more recently Crossfire), but there's no doubt there is a performance penalty regarding efficiency.

That's why SLi systems don't shine on lower settings.. and infact you'd notice that it often provides an inferior performance compared to a single-card solution.

However when you start to crank up the resolutions and game settings to pretty high levels, SLi starts to shine. The single-card solution has reached it's number-crunching ceiling and performance-stumps of SLi-setups due to the nature of it's design is over-ruled by the higher pure-grunt potential of having two cards.

The bottom line is, SLi will do you good right now if you're gonna run games at high resolutions at high settings. It will also be good in the long term.

On the other hand, if you tend to run your games at lower resolutions with no AA, you'll find it a waste.

So yes, you're right about SLi not living up to the hype unless you're doing serious graphical work, but it's not due to GAMES being written to support it. That's correct regarding CPUs, but it's a little different when it comes to video cards.

Specs seem good, although if you did intend to SLi, I still wouldn't settle for a 600W PSU. Upgrading a PSU (besides the extra cost which is worth mentioning anyway) can be a real bitch in an already built case.

Just a small note though - here's my take on SLi and why I don't personally ever do it: system balance issues. If I build a PC at a given time, the specs will be balanced for games at that time. For example, there is minimal bottleneck regarding the video card, the amount of RAM and the CPU in relation to gaming performance. If I decide to upgrade the CPU OR the video card in the future, I risk jeopardising that balance.

For example, one of my systems is an AMD64 3200+ and a Radeon X800XT-PE. It's on AGP so I can't really upgrade to any 'current' video cards, but that's not really the point. If I was to say upgrade to a high-end Geforce 8, I would be creating a system bottleneck immediately.

So generally speaking, by the time I'd want to ever upgrade, it's pretty much an ideal time to build a new PC altogether.

So for that reason, if you're bent on grabbing a second GTS in a year's time or so, to save yourself the hassle of perhaps having to contemplate upgrading the processor aswell, commit yourself now to the notion that you will be willing to heavily OC your E6600.

 

[Excalibur_]

Yeah, I'm not too fussed whether I decided to get SLi or not at a later stage. It would be nice to balance the load on both my monitors - but I do agree with you on the bottleneck created...

It's also bloody expensive. Which is why I'm not terribly keen on SLi...but it is an option. I had assumed that GPUs had similar architecture and 'program' execution method to CPUs (like how a program really needs to be compiled in such a way that it can utilise the extra core - however that works...my knowledge of Assembly only goes so far)...but I guess it could also be handled at the software / driver level - is my conjecture right?

My biggest dilemma right now is whether to keep the nice-looking, light, small and quite functional Mystique case (which won't fit a GTX) and use the GTS or get a larger, more functional(?) case (that will probably be a lot louder too) and get a GTX. Is that extra $300+ got the bang to go with it, is the other question.

Also whether I'm buying the right 'brand' of VGA cards. I'm fully aware that the manufactuers only slap a pre-fab GPU onto some circuitry - but there seems to be something about build quality and 'factory overclocking'. Do you have any thoughts on this?

I've also been told that it's probably not best to go all out on RAM like I have and that Kingston RAM (4GB) should suffice. Does 'premium' RAM not give that much bang for buck?

How much wattage do you suggest? I'd like to be able to recycle this rig as much as possible when the time comes. My current rig is kinda out of date for that (it's running a Northwood core for crying out loud).

 

[Drunkass86]

Games nowadays seem to me to be limited to how much processing power is needed by games, as in physics.

The anti-aliasing problem can be effectively dealt with by the higher range cards, but games like the new RTS like supreme commander, C&C 3 and even Starcraft 2 if it comes out on a PC that can play it well(!) need a great processor. Its all good talking about video cards, but when you have 500-1000 little mechs shooting at once, the computer needs to calc all this...its got not too much to do with GPUs at all.

It seems my advice on cases has been taken in. Good work. Now i'm not to say that the ammo case was bad, i'm saying it could've been so much better.

The best looking case doesn't nessesarily mean that you'd win a LAN tourney, but I was damn proud of it when i did.

 

[Excalibur_]

Ok. I've come to the conclusion of the case / VGA card issue.

Been doing some review reading - while the Mystique looks nice, it's a case that gets really hot.

Looks like I'll take the Stacker (which still looks pretty good) and the GTX. With the space for 9x120mm fans, I think cooling won't be an issue at all...

What about my other queries (regarding the quality of XFX vs. other brands, RAM, PSU wattage)?

 

[MuffinMan]

I have noticed you don't have a dedicated sound card, maybe you should consider?

 

[Excalibur_]

I've heard that on-board sound these days are just as good...even though I'm an audiophile, I'll hold off on that for now I guess.

Anyway - updated specs:

(from PC Maniacs)

Coolermaster CM Stacker 830 EVO Black $299.00
SilverStone ST60F 600w Modular PSU SLI Ready $168.00
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 $303.00
Gigabyte GA-P35-DQ6 775 $339.00
2 x Corsair 2 x 1GB 5400C4 RAM $298.00
2 x Seagate 7200.10 500Gb 16Mb SATA II $406.00
XFX 8800GTX 575mhz 768Mb PCI-E $835.00
2x Samsung 226BW 2ms 22" WideScreen LCD Monitor $950.00
Pioneer 212 D/Layer 18x DVD+-RW SATA NO S/WARE Black $55.00
Logitech G15 Keyboard Backlit Keys $109.00
Logitech G5 Laser Mouse 2007 $79.00

Grand Total $3,841.00

(from MSY)

Coolermaster CM Stacker 830 EVO Black $295.00
Coolermaster iGreen 600w PSU $154.00
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 $296.00
Gigabyte GA-P35-DQ6 775 $319.00
2 x Kingston 2 x 1GB 5400C4 RAM $190.00
2 x Seagate 7200.10 500Gb 16Mb SATA II $358.00
Asus 8800GTX 575mhz 768Mb PCI-E $835.00
2x ViewSonic 5m WideScreen LCD Monitor $800.00
Asus LightScribe 18x DVD-RW $59.00
Logitech G15 Keyboard Backlit Keys $99.00
Logitech G5 Laser Mouse 2007 $78.00

Grand Total $3,483.00

 

[MuffinMan]

How about 4x WD3200AAKS HDD 320gb at 100 each?
instead of 2x 500gb seagate

 

[goony]

Those are pretty good prices on the GTX cards, and a nice looking system overall, especially for the price.

From an article i read (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gf8800gtx-roundup.html)
XFX cards are the way to go for performance.

 

[Excalibur_]

Noise, cost, high Pr of a drive failing...etc

 

[Excalibur_]

Those are pretty good prices on the GTX cards, and a nice looking system overall, especially for the price.

From an article i read (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gf8800gtx-roundup.html)
XFX cards are the way to go for performance.

It's only cause they're pre-overclocked. At $130 more, I'm not surprised ;p

What about a stock XFX?

 

[goony]

It's only cause they're pre-overclocked. At $130 more, I'm not surprised ;p

What about a stock XFX?

haha too true, i suppose you're already over that $3000 target ey.

I haven't personally read any reviews on the stock XFX's, but there's bound to be heaps of reviews out there. $835 for that card (either asus or xfx) is pretty good nonetheless (*checks out PC maniacs and MSY*).

 

[MuffinMan]

Noise, cost, high Pr of a drive failing...etc

actually WD drives are quite reliable, whereas 2 Seagate drives have failed me. Plus you'll get an extra 280G for roughly the same price

 

[Excalibur_]

I've had my Seagate for 6 years now...it's running fine ;p

I'm still not very keen on having 4 HDDs (of any brand) in the machine...makes me wanna cringe...but I guess I have all the room in the world with this thing.

 

[Excalibur_]

Been doing a bit more reading...

...after July 22nd, a new line of Conroes are coming out - Exx50, based on the last line but with a 1333MHz FSB. Is this worth getting instead?

 

[goony]

See the link i posted on the first page.

The new Conroes will effect the prices of the current Kensfield Quad Cores. Basically, after the new Exx50 models come out you can pick up a Q6600 (2.4ghz, 4 cores/threads) for about $20 more than what you're paying for now. (about $320AU)

OR, you could pay the same $20 extra and get the newest E6850, which will feature a 1333mhz FSB (2 cores at 3.0ghz). However if you want to save some money...Have a look at the E6750, which, according to the new pricing map on the site, will be around the same price as the E6600 you're planning to get now, but with a slightly faster processor and a 1333mhz FSB.

This is all assuming that the new Exx50 models are a success/not faulty/not a dud, and (if you're thinking about a quad core) if you're actually going to find a practical application for a quad core (with regard to price that is).

 

[Collin]

Been doing a bit more reading...

...after July 22nd, a new line of Conroes are coming out - Exx50, based on the last line but with a 1333MHz FSB. Is this worth getting instead?

I'd say it's worth waiting just to check it out. The E6850 would be a killer for games. It would also balance with the 8800GTX better, which is an important point for games running at high settings.

If the performance benefits turn out to be negligible, atleast the current Es would have been reduced even further.

Keep in mind quad-core doesn't do much for games right now (and that trend would probably continue for another 1-2 years). For gamers, a faster dual-core is the way to go.

 

[MuffinMan]

True quad cores hasn't even come out yet. It's actually 4 cores on 2 processor dyes instead of 4 cores on one processor dye. (Correct me if I'm wrong)