Can I Believe In God In My Own Way? (2 Viewers)

[saladsurgery]

People like you piss me off. Either you are in or you are out. You can't sit on the fence, take out the parts that aren't convinient for you but still cover your bases in case you die. It's 100% or don't even bother.

people like you piss me off. believe what you want, see it all as a binary opposition if you want (i've got my own problems with this, but these are your beliefs, not mine), but at the end of the day, who the fuck are you to tell her what she can and can't believe in?

 

[Monkey Butler]

But when you get down to it Christianity IS that Binary Opposition - you either slavishly follow all the teachings of the Bible or you're not a good/proper Christian. Now, most churches nowdays kinda ignore that, interpret the Bible to suit their own wishes and let people mostly do their own thing, but IMO that's pretty hypocritical.

That said, I reckon you should be able to believe what you want to believe. You're not a Christian in the traditional sense, but you believe in God and wnat to have a relationship with him, and that's what should count if there is a God (and he's not a dick). Still don't see the appeal in religion myself, but that shouldn't stop you believing what you want.

 

[j.u.l.i.e]

i think that actually believe in god is good enough - coz the church are always changing whatever was in the bible (to fit the modern context) and shit anyway - they're are fucking priests going around felling little kids so it doesn't matter what the fuck christians are believing anyway, coz you end up forgetting all the 'rules' that are said by 'god' apparently

sorry it sounds harsh but its the truth anyway

 

[hiphophorray123]

...and christians should have a joy in their hearts that makes them want to go to church.

dude not everyone has the same values that u hold....

i say religion is speculation, sure it gives people hope and something to believe in but i believe everyone should come to a level of self-actualisation and enlightenment....and the first step to that is emancipate yourself from mental slavery to 'god'.........i pity real old religious extremists...i mean when your young its understandable because we are impressionable etc....but i mean as you get older your spossed to at least realise who you truly are and become enlightened...isn't that what alot of theorists claim......with age brings wisdom.....thats not what i've been seeing at all.

 

[malkin86]

I think that everyone has a different understanding of what this idea we call "God" is, and so, everyone who is theist believes in their God in their own way.
When you were a kid, God was your Father in the sky... since then, your understanding of God has changed.
The only duty that I think I've got to do in regards to that is that I should think about what I believe and why I believe it - try and further my own understanding of my belief. I talk to others about their belief as part of this. It's all quite interesting. :uhhuh:

 

[Sweets]

I am so sick of people imposing their own standards on what is means to be a Christian or Jew or Buddhist ect. I think spirituality comes to people in all different ways. In my opinion organised religion has just become another political weapon people can use to enforce their own values.

So i totally think that with religion the underlying concern should be spirituality it self, not whether you go to church. I mean going to church or a orgnised building works for some ppl and for others it doesn't.

 

[firehose]

sorry for getting sidetracked yes to answer your question ur_inner_child:

I'm sorry that you had this bad experience with your friend. Nobody can tell you for sure who is a real christian or not because that's up to God to decide. You will find that there are many Christians out there who have a fire-and-brimstone, Old Testament way of looking at things and if you were living in the old testament times (im talking about ancient, thousands of years ago) quite possibly she could be right.

So before I delve into deeper concepts I just want to share with you a bit about what savation is.

Basically we were all made in God's image by God and were meant to enjoy life in the Garden of Eden. Now as you probably know Adam took a bite from an apple from the tree of knowledge of good and evil (which Eve gave him) so thereby causing sin (rebellion against God's rule) to enter the world and condemning all humankind. So from a strictly Old Testament persective no-one is truly worthy of salvation (being saved from our sin and going to Heaven).

So in the OT times the way to *try* to become righteous with God (acceptable in His sight) was to offer sacrifices at a temple and try to live a holy life in accordance with the Ten Commandments. Notice how this puts the onus on ourselves for our own salvation.

But in New Testament times, God sent Jesus to Earth for two reasons:
1. To experience what it was like for humans to be tempted by sin
2. More importantly, to be the equivalent of that sacrifice in the OT times so that everybody who believed in Jesus could become righteous with God.

A verse from the Bible which I want to share with you is this "But God demonstrates His own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8)

So even though nobody relly deserves to be saved, God took the initiative to restore people to a proper relationship with him.

This doesn't mean tha Christians are any better people than non-Christians. In fact, Christians are still prone to sinning and have these weaknesses. The only difference is that Christians know their sins will be wiped away every time and have a 100% assurance of going to Heaven.

So really, Christians are not saved because of what they do but for what God has done for them. Nothing we do can make God love us more and nothing we do can make God love us any less.

In the NT you will find that God loved everyone (in fact if there were openly homosexual people in those times Jesus would have accepted them with open arms). He associated with "tax collectors", and "sinners" and prostitutes and whores. Having gay friends does not make you any less acceptable in God's eyes. In fact, God encourages His believers to accept everyone unquestiongly.

As for going to church, Christians think it is important to worship God and understand Him more but it's not essential. After all, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath" (Mark 2:27)

As for moving out of your home I can't say because I don't know about your circumstances. And even though pre-marital sex is discouraged in the Old Testament God won't love you any less because of it.

In fact, the only way for one to go to Heaven is to acknowledge and confess that you are an inherently sinful person and then accept Jesus into your life knowing that He has died for your sins. We don't go to Heaven by leading Godly lives and observing the Sabbath.

So in answering your question, churches in a modern day and age have to deal with changing shifts in societal attitudes and expectations. Premarital sex is considered wrong as is homosexuality but that doesnt mean that Churches should be running a closed shop. Just because they warmly invite sinners to Church it does not mean that they have to necessarily agree with the ideas and attitudes of that sinner. We as Christians should not "conform to the ways of this world" but accept everyone lovingly just as God accepted us.

Quoted and repped.... very worthwhile reading that

Now, a lot of you might think that there is a blurred line about who is or isn't a Christian etc. Forget everything, at the end of the day there is only one thing that defines you as being Christian or not...

... whether you have meaningly confessed your sins, praising God for Jesus' salvation and asking (and receiving) holy life...

... now with that other stuff. Going to church should NOT be mandatory. You can be Christian and not attend church if you feel that you can sustain your spiritual life on your own. However, church feeds your soul and so it while it is voluntary it should be part of every Christians' practice because it is like the fuel that keeps ur relationship with God going. Don't worry about all that other 'not having gay friends' or 'not living with parents' stuff, that friend of yours is concentrating too much on being self-righteous and needs to concentrate on the one thing that matters over all: God's love.

 

[llamalope]

If you are gay, but lead a good life - believe in God, aim to help people (joining things like amnesty)and try to be honest... Why should you be condemned. As somebody pointed out before no man who has sight problems can be a minister, and yet I have seen plenty of people with glasses leading a church service. I think there are a total of 2 sentences in the bible about homosexuality....But, the world evolves. We have to move with the times. Christianity is supposed to be about unconditional love and forgiveness. Yes, we are all sinners, but if you love God and repent your sins wholeheartedly, and believe in the apostle's creed, and try to live a good life then I think that should be the most important thing

 

[Stan..]

I'm a bit irritated at the moment. I spoke to this girl and she told me that I'm not a real christian because I have friends who are gay, I don't go to church, I've hurt my parents because I moved out (ie, thou shall honour thy mother and father) and that my boyfriend and I get interesting every now and then.

This coming from a girl who believes in Adam and Eve literally. Which I don't. I thought it was more of the meaning that comes out of it - the fact that representing the start of the human race as two people meant that God created us ALL, and that we should treat each other like family, not literally blood related.

I don't want this to be a discussion about whether God exists, but whether or not religion can or should be accepted as more or less fluid.

I cannot believe that after so many translations, so many changes of the Bible - and so many changes in societal values, that one can actually "truly" worship the "original" religion.

Can religion be fluid? Or am I going to hell?

The girl is probably a Christian Bigot.

 

[inasero]

well from a christian point of view...homosexuality is sin but God wouldn't love you and less because of it. A homosexual person could enter Heaven as long as they believed in the sacrifice of God's son Jesus and acknowledged the sinfulness of their lifestyle decision and showed outwardly signs of trying to change their ways

 

[HellVeN]

I'm not going to stop you from beliveing what you want HellVen but let me ask- haven't you ever thought there was more to life than being born, living and then dying?

Sure. I have thought about it if that is what you mean. Hypothesized is the word perhaps. But I've never believed that there was anything after life and I see no reason to. My whole family has always been atheist anyway. I've made up my own mind that there's nothing after life. I'm not really one for optimism anyway.

Yeah, you’re a smart one, because seeing as you think my views on religion are stupid and un-credible and you don’t agree with them, I can tell you to go fuck yourself?
Look I really don’t care what you think, but saying Santa is more believable than God is really a big call, I mean on this planet there is a need for God, there is no need for santa. If you explain how the universe was created (explain how that single atom that combusted into the universe was there.) If you explain to me that, I’ll believe you. If you can’t, your beliefs are more fucked than mine, because at least with mine I can grasp every concept on this forsaken planet.

Don't swear Poon-Tang, God will spank you and you'll go to "Hell".
This whole God thing gives people false hopes imho. I won't go as far as saying it's totaly useless because I know that some people need it and they find that their lives has no meaning without it but I don't personally need it. I'm strong enough a person without it.

It find it funny that you talk about the universe and the atom. You want me to explain how these things exist?
Well I can't because I'm not fucking Einstein. But if christianity explains everything please explain to me - who the fuck created God ey? Rofl. Your whole argument doesn't make sense. It's like me asking you "Explain to me how god was created". Oh wait... that question can actually be answered. He was created by the human imagination.

The simple fact is that no-one can grasp every possible concept. There are too many unknown variables. But do you really need to anyway?

God to me is nothing. I crush him. I'm not one to believe things unless there is credible primary source evidence.


Ok let's pretend there is a god for a minute. A being with supreme powers.
What does it looks like?
How did it got there?
Where is "there"?
What can it do?
Why the hell would it create earth and everything on earth?
Why make "humans"?
What is the meaning of all this and why do we even need or want a meaning?
Why make such a shit world?
Why do I still have billions questions?

Lol, and you tell me god is the answer to everything? All it does is raise more questions. Yep, I never believed in religion.

 

[inasero]

Ok let's pretend there is a god for a minute. A being with supreme powers.
What does it looks like?
How did it got there?
Where is "there"?
What can it do?
Why the hell would it create earth and everything on earth?
Why make "humans"?
What is the meaning of all this and why do we even need or want a meaning?
Why make such a shit world?
Why do I still have billions questions?

-Nobody knows; God probably probably looks like humans since God said "Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness"..." (Genesis 1:26)

-Nobody created God...God created everything....time and matter and gravity too

-Nobody knows, it's ot written in the Bible...even the Big Bang is just a hypothesis

-Everything

-God created humans to have a proper relationship with. God is all about love. He wants to know each and every one of us on a personal basis. Secondly, God created the Earth and everything in it for the benefit of mankind

-See above

-Meaning of life? Not just to live and die...but to experience a meaningful relationship with God. Some people don't need or want any meaning (for example nihilists or atheists) so it's entirely a decision that is up to them

-"Shit" in what sense? Why did God introduce suffering into the world? That's a very good question and one which most people will ask at some stage while pondering Christianity. Most suffering is a result of our own sinfulness but some is not e.g. "As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”. “Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life" (John 9:1-3).
All suffering results from the fallen nature of our world since mankind made the decision to stray away fro God's decree in the Garden of Eden...so theoetically God didn't create the world intending that man should suffer bt it just came to be this way.
Furthermore, God uses suffering to strengthen and discipline His children:
"Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons. Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live! Our fathers disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, that we may share in his holiness. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it" (Hebrews 12:7-11 ).
We could live life without any sufferings but that would be a bit useless. How absurd would it be if we were still stuck in primary school because we weren't made to suffer enough then? How absurd is it for an adult to ride around on a tricycle without suffering the cuts and bruises associated with the falls of learning how to ride a bicycle? We're like pieces of coal in that if we are subect to heat and pressure over time we just become dust but if we can withstand thse conditions with the strength of Jesus then what do we become over time? A glittering diamond. Another verse I want to share is "Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us" (Romans 5:3-5).
So from a Christian perspective even though we are not maschochists we recognise it's importance and necessity.

-Well it's our nature to be inquisitive and curious and confused and frustrated when it comes to religion. If you have any more questions I'd be happy to help.

 

[inasero]

Before you bring a flock of questions into the forum I think it would serve everybody well to get a good idea in regards to what christianity is all about- not to mention it's a leisurely read you can go through at your own place:
http://www.matthiasmedia.com.au/2wtl/index.asp

 

[Tegz]

i think that religion is an idealist belief that brings comfort to ppl who need to justify everything that happens in the world. but if this is what helps u sleep at night then good on you.
but isnt it hypocrytical to have these views and to love all gods creations etc and then persecute people who dont hav the same views.
isnt it enough that someone is a good person - without going to church every sunday - who respects people for who they are. which is more than i can say for some people claiming to be religious and holy n then shoot sum1 down coz they're an athiest, buddhist, taoist etc
shouldnt religion or it equal bring ppl together not divide us according to our belief systems?

 

[Napstar]

i think all people should believe in jesus because he died for US. he did the most unselfish act ever and how can you deny him your love when he loves us all so much?

if you ever doubt his love just pray to him and he will help you to see the truth.

 

[Monkey Butler]

Napstar, grow up!

 

[Riewe]

I actually don't have a problem with people of different faiths, including those with no faiths, because God created everyone and everything to begin with, and only by cultural evolution did all these different faiths come into being. An example is that Jews/Christians/Muslims pretty much worship the same God, and it is only by different cultures that certain specifics have changed, and thus the difference between different religions.

And in the end, everyone will die and be with God. And that is how i see it.

 

[Napstar]

I actually don't have a problem with people of different faiths, including those with no faiths, because God created everyone and everything to begin with, and only by cultural evolution did all these different faiths come into being. An example is that Jews/Christians/Muslims pretty much worship the same God, and it is only by different cultures that certain specifics have changed, and thus the difference between different religions.

And in the end, everyone will die and be with God. And that is how i see it.

i think it is true that the different religions all have a similar god. but the problem is that without accepting jesus christ as ur savour and having died for ur sins, you are blocking out gods love for us and no sinner can go to heaven unless he has the holy spirit in him.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

As an atheist;
- If you believe in a religion, believe in the whole religion.
- If it's ok to believe in anything you want, and still be a part of that religion but exclude some parts... why not just make up your own imaginary belief that makes u happy?
- The trend towards people believing their own 'versions' of christianity/islam/etc i think is just another sign that while spirituality may always exist, people have either consciously or subconsciously realised religion is bullshit.

 

[inasero]

That is perhaps one of the worst Christian sites on the net. Single minded, narrow and over simplistic. If everyone subscribed to what was said on that website all we would get it robotic people with one unquestionable veiw to life.

I HATE social engineering. However it gives people peace of mind and makes life many times easier for people, however baseless, then I guess good for them.

I believe there are personality types out there that have a greater chance of believing in something that is nothing more than abstract contruction of words and stories. I may be that those who need to be loved, or something, or feel they need some kind of self worth. Perhaps believers need to feel accepted into something. Maybe it is because those who believe cannot accept that a creature such as the human being does not die like everyother living thing. That there must be something more out there because we, as humans, are superior and hence there must be a higher power. In this way Christianity is very individualistic and self me focused, at least in the way it is 'sold' in today's society.

I myself could never bring myself to believe something that condemns those who are not like myself to eternal damnation. I'd prefer to subscribe to humanism that is INCLUSIVE rather than EXCLUSIVE of people. I could never subscribe to a belief that states that there is only one way to live because by simply opening your eyes it becomes clear that there is more than one way to live.

I hate how christianity holds people up as 'better' because they believe. That somehow because a person is a man of god he is more trustworthy and more worldly by virtue of his religious beliefs.

I hate how Christians prefer to have Christian friends and prefer to dissassociate with non Christians.

I believe those kinds of insular associations are present to ensure that those who start to believe can have their beliefs reasserted through peer pressure. Which essentially is what all religions are.

Relgion is a social tool and very political. It is a SOCIAL CONSTRUCTION like everything else in our personal interactions. We created it and interpreted it for our own benefit. Religion is nothing without social interaction and people would not believe if they didn't have people around them constantly reminding them why they believe and showing the number of nice people who are just like them who also believe.

Yes you may have your own opinion but I don't think you're in a position to go around telling other people what they can and can't read in relation to Christianity seeing as you're not one yourself. Of course educated discussion is always welcome, but please don't accuse Christianity as "baseless" and an "abstract construction". You don't see me going around criticizing others religions do you? Most threads relating to religion (especially Christianity) are in fact intelligent, informed discussions until you come along and sprout baseless rhetoric which doesn't really serve the purpose of the thread. Go ahead and read the last few pages for yourself. If you want to bash Christianity go make a separate thread about it you are more than welcome!