Chechnya War (1 Viewer)

[SashatheMan]

Theres no news link in this thread, its a discussion topic.

Even though the fighting in Chechnya has calmed down, the problem hasn't been fully resolved.

Do you think Russia had a good reason to attack Chechnya, the first time, and then again in the second war?

I personally believe that Russia had every right to recapture the breakaway Republic of Chechnya. For if it was granted independance its feared that the muslims will start ethnic cleansing.Chechens extremists took as a right the expulsion, robbery, and murder of non-chechen people. More than 300.000 non-chechens were killed or driven out. This brutality was not only against Russians, but also to Ukrainians, Jews, Tatars, Armenians and other nationalities
I also believe that it was justifiable to retaliate after numerous terrorist attacks, that include, hospitals and a school full of children, that Chechin extremists mostly muslim carried out.

And now the Chechin Guerillas have been known to be receiving help from other extremist organisation ie Al-quada to assist in killing russian soldiers.




tell me what u think.

ps Argaunat , dont come in here and say some shit about me picking out muslims or some other bullshit you love to rant about.
The topic is Chechen War.

 

[Salima]

You do talk about Muslims a lot though. But hey it's your thing then...I guess. I think it is horrible what you said about the ethinic cleansing. I didn't know it was going on. I feel more horrified by it because as muslims they chould know better, and that their not allowed to do this. Anyone can live thier, they can make it a muslim state if they want, but no cleansing!

But Russia is a bit, wait, I mean a whole lot, of a wank, at wht they have done. Like every Chechnyan city is now rubble and dirt. Poverty galore. Assholes. I think the Russians should let Chechnya be free, but if they worried about any ethnic cleansing, they should have brought it up with the UN, so they could send people over there to prod and poke and keep thier eyes on what was going on there. I know the UN can be pretty airy fairy a lot fo the time, but theor good with sending people places to check things out you know!

Russia doesn't really have a good track record either with it's various ethnicities. So they can't talk. Russia just doesn't like losing out on anything, drunken governemnt bums! (sorry stereotyping there!) Well all the Cold War guys like were drunk half the time!

 

[davin]

yeah, cuz, as we all know, the UN does a great job on not letting ethnic cleansing happen. *cough*rwanda*cough*iraq*cough*

on the matter itself, though, i've not heard the ethnic clensing charges before...link possibly?
and really, russia's ability to hold on to any of its former territory has been pretty bad as theres been so many break offs, and there's quite likly going to be more as it continues to dissolve.

 

[Salima]

Yes sasha could you provide a link on the cleansing, well the one you foudn it out at. I'll look for one myself and post it if you haven't by the time I return...heck! I'll do it anyway!

 

[Salima]

LINK IS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechnya

From 1991 to 1994, as many as 300,000 people of non-Chechen ethnicity (mostly Russians) fled the republic, and an unknown number (some estimate as high as 50,000) were murdered or disappeared ([4]). At this time, the slave trade also re-emerged in Chechnya (the earliest known person taken as a Chechen slave, Vladimir Yepishin, was kidnapped in 1989 and released in 2002, and claims to have come in contact with other slaves kidnapped by Chechens in the mid-80s [5]). [6][7].

Chechen sources claim[citation needed] non-Chechens were victims of common criminals and were not singled out. Russian sources, however argue that xenophobic rhetoric of Dudayev and other Chechen nationalists played some part in the events of those years.

On May 26 and on July 29, 1994, Chechen terrorists took hostages (including schoolchildren) in Russian city Mineralny Vody. 4 persons died.

A Chechen field commander took responsibility for a bus explosion in Moscow several months after the accords.

Due to widespread crime and the alleged ethnic cleansing carried out by the government of Dzhokhar Dudayev most non-Chechens (and many Chechens as well) fled the country during the 1990s. Today there are only several thousand ethnic Russian residents of Chechnya.

 

[physician]

Im not entirely familiar with the Chechin war, so please excuse me/correct me if I may get any of the facts wrong.

Do you think Russia had a good reason to attack Chechnya, the first time, and then again in the second war?

By the 2 wars, are you referring to the first attack by the Russians in 1994 and then again in 1999 (i.e 1999 being the 2nd) after 3 yrs of peace (in 1996, 1997 and 1998) ?

I personally believe that Russia had every right to recapture the breakaway Republic of Chechnya. For if it was granted independance its feared that the muslims will start ethnic cleansing.

Was the attack based on a fear "that the Muslims will start ethnic cleansing"?

Chechens extremists took as a right the expulsion, robbery, and murder of non-chechen people. More than 300.000 non-chechens were killed or driven out. This brutality was not only against Russians, but also to Ukrainians, Jews, Tatars, Armenians and other nationalities

When did this occur? ( I'm askng these questions sincerely, as i said Im not entirely familiar with the Chechin war)

Oh never mind, Salima has already answered my question! According to Salima's source, 300,000 fled the republic and 50,000 were murdered or diasappeared
(unless ur referring to another period?)

I also believe that it was justifiable to retaliate after numerous terrorist attacks, that include, hospitals and a school full of children, that Chechin extremists mostly muslim carried out.

And now the Chechin Guerillas have been known to be receiving help from other extremist organisation ie Al-quada to assist in killing russian soldiers.

tell me what u think.

The school full of children was attacked on September 1 in 2004, the retalliations occured before this!

During the 1994 and 1999 invasions at least 100,000 Chechen civilians and 10,000 Russian troops are estimated to have been killed in both invasions.

International human rights watchdogs said in a
joint statement that rape, torture and extrajudicial executions by Russian troops have become everyday occurrences in Chechnya.

IMO, It doesnt look like the Russian Invasion is any more peaceful than what supposedly sparked the retalliation. Deaths are still large in number and Chechyns are being subjected to ill treatment, abuse, torture etc...In both cases, innocents have been and are being murdered and subjected to ill treatment!

 

[davin]

has it been resolved in the case of the school taken hostage what caused most of the deaths? i remember the last big incident was taking hostages in a moscow theatre, and most of the deaths came from russian forces trying to get the terrorists

 

[leetom]

The USSR should be revived, absorbing all of those crap central-Asian states with it. As for Chechnya, communism>islam.

 

[SashatheMan]

has it been resolved in the case of the school taken hostage what caused most of the deaths? i remember the last big incident was taking hostages in a moscow theatre, and most of the deaths came from russian forces trying to get the terrorists

i believe it was because the terrorists exploded something, and then cross fire that killed many people

 

[SashatheMan]

The school full of children was attacked on September 1 in 2004, the retalliations occured before this!

yes, but there was a number of other terrorist attacks, before that in which the terrorsirst wanted russian troops out of chechnya

During the 1994 and 1999 invasions at least 100,000 Chechen civilians and 10,000 Russian troops are estimated to have been killed in both invasions.

International human rights watchdogs said in a
joint statement that rape, torture and extrajudicial executions by Russian troops have become everyday occurrences in Chechnya.

IMO, It doesnt look like the Russian Invasion is any more peaceful than what supposedly sparked the retalliation. Deaths are still large in number and Chechyns are being subjected to ill treatment, abuse, torture etc...In both cases, innocents have been and are being murdered and subjected to ill treatment

yes i can agree with that. Russian troops did alot of wrong things then selves. But it could have been prevented if chechnya didnt try to separate and kick non-chechen people out of the country.

 

[davin]

i believe it was because the terrorists exploded something, and then cross fire that killed many people

thats what i wasn't sure...was if they sorted out the source of the fire in that one

 

[mr EaZy]

Before we begin let us examine Sasha

He is a Russian, probably patriotic/nationalistic, confirmed athiest, unconfirmed communist

good start


In WW2 the Communists were wiping out the multitude of ethnicities in the region. Hitler decided to split his supplies to move in from the East and North from that region and recruited around 500 000 locals who hated the communists- the athiests were intolerant of religious people so what can i say!


in the 1800s the russians tried to capture the region but couldnt match up against the mujahidden and some other local forces. But ethnic cleansing was on the menu of the Russians- they were the imperialists at the time.



Should we offer the chechens independence? What do you think? Russia is a crumbling block anyways so its going to happen some time in the future!

 

[mr EaZy]

yes i can agree with that. Russian troops did alot of wrong things then selves. But it could have been prevented if chechnya didnt try to separate and kick non-chechen people out of the country.

LOLLLLLLLLLL:rofl:

thats like saying if hitler hadnt tried to take over the world, the Russians wouldnt have raped over 2 million Eastern and north european women!

hold on i think 2 million women were raped in Berlin alone

and now chechnya

whats wrong with your people dude!

Its not about them (be it chechens or Germans) . its about You (your people)
get that through ur thick head!

 

[mr EaZy]

in a moscow theatre, and most of the deaths came from russian forces trying to get the terrorists

4 corners reported that the order to detonate the bombs never came; the order to kill the theatre goers never came

then the russians came with the sleeping gas and in their "rescue attempt"
choked the hostages whilst being carried away from the building and left them in the rain (unconscious)

Will Anderson in the glass house:

300+ die in Russian rescue attempt.

Russians to re-define the word "'Rescue'"

With the school siege what the hell were tanks doing there? SBS news reported that an inquiry condemned the use of grenades and tank shells!

Now i condemn these attacks because only cowards put children in danger

and the chechens (i think it was the chechens) were already slaughtering the russian spetznaz ("elite" forces) back in Grozny so why bother?

But what i liked about the theatre one was:

A few days before
the russians announced that BARAYEV was killed in chechnya but then he appears in that siege.... CLASSIC embarrassment for the kremlin HO HO HO!