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CHEMISTRY DEPTH STUDY HELP!!!! (1 Viewer)

saraahhpp

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I have to do a depth study about collecting yield in an industrial environment, I'm honestly so confused!! if anyone could help me I could give more detail. It's due in 5 days and i havent started ahhhhhh
 

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I remember this from last year if it's any consequence. Yield is the amount of a product you get and in industry (big factories) they aim to get as much product as they can to maintain efficiency and stay economically stable. But basically the percentage yield is very important in the manufacturing of products (for example you could use the production of fertilisers from ammonia or even the production of ammonia (Haber process - which is what i did)). A lot of money goes into the precise measures (large pipes to control large pressures) to determine what will give the greatest percentage yield without waiting extensive periods of time or losing large percentages of the product. In the Haber process there are key areas which increase percentage yield: Pressure, temperature, iron catalyst, ratio of nitrogen to hydrogen. All of these are very specific and are used at industrial levels to achieve maximum percentage yield in reasonable time frames.

Hope this helps :)
 

saraahhpp

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I remember this from last year if it's any consequence. Yield is the amount of a product you get and in industry (big factories) they aim to get as much product as they can to maintain efficiency and stay economically stable. But basically the percentage yield is very important in the manufacturing of products (for example you could use the production of fertilisers from ammonia or even the production of ammonia (Haber process - which is what i did)). A lot of money goes into the precise measures (large pipes to control large pressures) to determine what will give the greatest percentage yield without waiting extensive periods of time or losing large percentages of the product. In the Haber process there are key areas which increase percentage yield: Pressure, temperature, iron catalyst, ratio of nitrogen to hydrogen. All of these are very specific and are used at industrial levels to achieve maximum percentage yield in reasonable time frames.

Hope this helps :)
I'm doing it about metallurgy and smelting. I don't even know if I'm doing it correctly but trying my best. Thank you so much!
 

jazz519

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I'm doing it about metallurgy and smelting. I don't even know if I'm doing it correctly but trying my best. Thank you so much!
Try to incorporate factors that you would need to account for in an industrial process. For instance:
- Source of the materials (where can we source the raw material from? do we need a mine? sea water? etc. In that you will need to focus on things such as the extraction processes as well as where you want to locate the industrial plant. For instance, if your industrial process has raw materials of rocks and sea water then its probably a better idea to locate the plant closer to the ocean compared to the rocks, because the rocks are easier to transport compared to sea water. So you need to look at transport costs too)

- Industrial production (what is the chemical reaction, or do we need to do many chemical reactions to get our final desired product - which is way more common for example in making sulfuric acid you first need to make sulfur go to so2 and then so2 to so3 and then so3 to oleum and then that goes to h2so4 in the end)

- Reaction conditions: what types of things will help us make more of the product (referred to as yield). Some info to consider is things like reaction rate: which is linked to temperatures, concentration and pressure. Then sometimes we also need to look at le Chatelier's principle, because we can shift the equilibrium with changes to make more of our product if an equilibrium process is involved).

- Safety: can't always just do the thing in the industrial process that makes the most product, sometimes there are safety issues associated with that for example if more pressure would make more product, you can't just keep increasing pressure because that can cause an explosion. other than that also need to monitor the environmental effects of the process: are we burning fossil fuels to power the plant if we need a high temperature? do we release toxic chemicals into the air like so2 which makes acid rain? etc.

- Purification: purifying the end product is also important because we have a reaction mixture and you don't want to be selling a product that has impurities in it
 

saraahhpp

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Try to incorporate factors that you would need to account for in an industrial process. For instance:
- Source of the materials (where can we source the raw material from? do we need a mine? sea water? etc. In that you will need to focus on things such as the extraction processes as well as where you want to locate the industrial plant. For instance, if your industrial process has raw materials of rocks and sea water then its probably a better idea to locate the plant closer to the ocean compared to the rocks, because the rocks are easier to transport compared to sea water. So you need to look at transport costs too)

- Industrial production (what is the chemical reaction, or do we need to do many chemical reactions to get our final desired product - which is way more common for example in making sulfuric acid you first need to make sulfur go to so2 and then so2 to so3 and then so3 to oleum and then that goes to h2so4 in the end)

- Reaction conditions: what types of things will help us make more of the product (referred to as yield). Some info to consider is things like reaction rate: which is linked to temperatures, concentration and pressure. Then sometimes we also need to look at le Chatelier's principle, because we can shift the equilibrium with changes to make more of our product if an equilibrium process is involved).

- Safety: can't always just do the thing in the industrial process that makes the most product, sometimes there are safety issues associated with that for example if more pressure would make more product, you can't just keep increasing pressure because that can cause an explosion. other than that also need to monitor the environmental effects of the process: are we burning fossil fuels to power the plant if we need a high temperature? do we release toxic chemicals into the air like so2 which makes acid rain? etc.

- Purification: purifying the end product is also important because we have a reaction mixture and you don't want to be selling a product that has impurities in it

Thank you so much!!! I'm doing the extraction of iron from iron ores. I'm having huge difficulty finding how they test the quality yeild and raw materials. I'm going to keep searching but if anyone could help would help heaps
 

saraahhpp

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1. Name and description of some analytical methods and instruments used
  • test raw materials for the process
  • control the process
  • measure product quantity or yield
2. The chemical reaction used to assist in controlling the process.

^^ these are the two exact questions I still have to answer if anyone can help it would be very appreciated. Been stressing about it all weekend.
 

jazz519

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Thank you so much!!! I'm doing the extraction of iron from iron ores. I'm having huge difficulty finding how they test the quality yeild and raw materials. I'm going to keep searching but if anyone could help would help heaps
Oh right I'm not sure if this 100% applies to your exact scenario in terms of them using this method widely in industry because that probably will depend on the chemical plant and their size, but determining amount of something deals with the field of analytical chemistry. In which we use different analytical techniques to determine what substances there are in a sample and how much of those substances there are.

Common techniques for determining amount are:
- Gravimetric analysis :
So a potential method you can use in terms of Fe in FeO is like you dissolve the substance in an acid (usually HCl or h2so4) then that frees up the ions from the FeO to make Fe2+ ions

Then we can react that mixture with something that will make a precipitate for example: if you add sodium carbonate (Na2CO3) it makes a precipitate with the Fe2+ (Na2CO3 (aq) + Fe^2+ (aq) --> FeCO3(s) + 2Na^+(aq)), then you can filter the solution and weigh the precipitate mass (I.e the iron carbonate) and work backwards through molar ratios (stoichiometry) calculations to determine the amount of iron present in the initial sample which can then be used to find yield

Problem with this method is that you lose a lot of the precipitate sometimes because it sticks to the equipment you use and maybe in your precipitation reaction instead of just precipitating the iron, you might also make a precipitate with something else in the sample like calcium could be in there and that also makes a precipitate with carbonate ions, which can potentially inflate your values

- Titration: Probably the most commonly used analysis for most things


(Go to question 1 in short answer for this has a method finding iron in alloy same method you can probably use for an ore just needs more prior purification)

So in these types of techniques you do a similar thing to the gravimetric analysis in dissolving with an acid

But your next step with the precipitate bit is different. instead of a precipitate you do a reaction in which you very carefully measure how much volume reacts and then you can use to figure out how much iron is present

this method is more accurate because you don't have those same mass losses from the precipitate because you just react volumes and look for colour changes to indicate when the reaction finishes using indicator solutions
 

saraahhpp

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Oh right I'm not sure if this 100% applies to your exact scenario in terms of them using this method widely in industry because that probably will depend on the chemical plant and their size, but determining amount of something deals with the field of analytical chemistry. In which we use different analytical techniques to determine what substances there are in a sample and how much of those substances there are.

Common techniques for determining amount are:
- Gravimetric analysis :
So a potential method you can use in terms of Fe in FeO is like you dissolve the substance in an acid (usually HCl or h2so4) then that frees up the ions from the FeO to make Fe2+ ions

Then we can react that mixture with something that will make a precipitate for example: if you add sodium carbonate (Na2CO3) it makes a precipitate with the Fe2+ (Na2CO3 (aq) + Fe^2+ (aq) --> FeCO3(s) + 2Na^+(aq)), then you can filter the solution and weigh the precipitate mass (I.e the iron carbonate) and work backwards through molar ratios (stoichiometry) calculations to determine the amount of iron present in the initial sample which can then be used to find yield

Problem with this method is that you lose a lot of the precipitate sometimes because it sticks to the equipment you use and maybe in your precipitation reaction instead of just precipitating the iron, you might also make a precipitate with something else in the sample like calcium could be in there and that also makes a precipitate with carbonate ions, which can potentially inflate your values

- Titration: Probably the most commonly used analysis for most things


(Go to question 1 in short answer for this has a method finding iron in alloy same method you can probably use for an ore just needs more prior purification)

So in these types of techniques you do a similar thing to the gravimetric analysis in dissolving with an acid

But your next step with the precipitate bit is different. instead of a precipitate you do a reaction in which you very carefully measure how much volume reacts and then you can use to figure out how much iron is present

this method is more accurate because you don't have those same mass losses from the precipitate because you just react volumes and look for colour changes to indicate when the reaction finishes using indicator solutions
Thank you so much for this. I'm starting to understand what I need to do a little better. Would you have any idea what instruments and methods could be used to test raw materials?
 

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Thank you so much for this. I'm starting to understand what I need to do a little better. Would you have any idea what instruments and methods could be used to test raw materials?
You can use the same things above but there is another very successful technique for figuring out metal concentrations which is atomic absorption spectroscopy
 

jazz519

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In that method you basically make a graph of absorbance of light from a bunch of solutions you made before which have set concentrations.

Then you test your sample by passing a light through it and how much gets absorbed will be linked to how much there is of it (ie. the concentration)

Then because we have a graph that tells us how much light a certain concentration of sample absorbs light we can compare to our absorbance for our sample and figure out the amount
 

saraahhpp

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In that method you basically make a graph of absorbance of light from a bunch of solutions you made before which have set concentrations.

Then you test your sample by passing a light through it and how much gets absorbed will be linked to how much there is of it (ie. the concentration)

Then because we have a graph that tells us how much light a certain concentration of sample absorbs light we can compare to our absorbance for our sample and figure out the amount
Thank you heaps. I'm going to try to finish tonight. Its due Wednesday so lets hope I can!
 

jazz519

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Thank you heaps. I'm going to try to finish tonight. Its due Wednesday so lets hope I can!
Good luck :)

Just a recommendation from someone who tutors chemistry and does it at uni:
- make sure you put as many equations and specific numbers for reaction conditions like temperatures and catalysts as you can and diagrams are also helpful in explaining concepts in chemistry answers
 

saraahhpp

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Good luck :)

Just a recommendation from someone who tutors chemistry and does it at uni:
- make sure you put as many equations and specific numbers for reaction conditions like temperatures and catalysts as you can and diagrams are also helpful in explaining concepts in chemistry answers
One of my questions is
  • Equation of interest
    • Reactants
    • Products
(basically to describe the formula used when extracting iron)

would this be the correct answer:
Fe2O3 + 3CO → 2Fe + 3CO2
This is a 1:3 ratio

1 iron oxide to 3 carbon monoxide

Iron oxide is a solid material that reacts with Carbon Monoxide gas, This reaction forms solid iron and a gas, Carbon dioxide

Iron oxide and Carbon monoxide are the reactants, these produce the Products Iron and Carbon dioxide.

I tried to add as much detail as I will be using the information to answer tests. When I googled there are many equations that happen through the smelting process but this was the equation where pure iron is formed. Would this be the only necessary one?
 

jazz519

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I don't personally know too much about that purification process so couldn't tell you for sure if thats the only reaction but it looks fine in terms of the way its written (one thing to note don't forget the states for the compounds)

But yeah if there is only one reaction then thats fine to just mention that
 

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Another thought I had though is you have CO being used so you can also talk about a reaction that you use to make that because it won't be just available readily from a source like the atmosphere,
 

saraahhpp

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I don't personally know too much about that purification process so couldn't tell you for sure if thats the only reaction but it looks fine in terms of the way its written (one thing to note don't forget the states for the compounds)

But yeah if there is only one reaction then thats fine to just mention that
Okay, thank you. I'm just going to leave the one formula as it makes the most sense to me.
Also one more question sorry for so many questions. One of the questions in my depth study is about the moles of the reactant and product.

for my answer so far I have written some estimated moles as I do not know the exact mass.

[The amount of Iron produced would determine how much iron ore we began with. If we assume that 112g of Iron was produced than:

nFe = 112 grams ÷ 55.9 g/mol = 2.003577818 moles

nCO = (2.003577818 moles ÷ 2) × 3= 3.0053667263 moles

There would be one more mole in Carbon Dioxide because there are three times carbon dioxide to every 2 iron.]

Would this be the accurate way of answering or would i have to do more research to find exact moles.
 

jazz519

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Yeah the molar ratios are fine. But one thing to consider is your reaction wont have 100% yield so like theoretically speaking you need 3.005 moles of CO but in industrial process you would add a little more excess of the reactants to make the reaction go faster
 

saraahhpp

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Yeah the molar ratios are fine. But one thing to consider is your reaction wont have 100% yield so like theoretically speaking you need 3.005 moles of CO but in industrial process you would add a little more excess of the reactants to make the reaction go faster
would I have to increase the moles then or just write how in an industry they would add more?
I'm sure if i don't have the exact moles that would be used in an industry it would be okay, ill just write "in an industry they would add excess of the reactants ect."
 

jazz519

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would I have to increase the moles then or just write how in an industry they would add more?
I'm sure if i don't have the exact moles that would be used in an industry it would be okay, ill just write "in an industry they would add excess of the reactants ect."
Yeah that should be fine to just state they use more to account for not a perfect 100% reaction happening
 

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