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Co-op vs Cadetship (2 Viewers)

seremify007

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Newbie said:
seremify is the lead dancer, im the awkward one at the back.
all first year grads have to do it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64MavToFkP4
That is so 2 months ago... Considering everyone from Big4 has forwarded it to me, I don't even need to watch it to know what it is. LOL.

Sigh, I guess it's our turn to take the beating... bring back the KPMG theme song!
 
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rmy888

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ahaha
vid was highlarious!

anywho, question... for a cadetship with the big4 is it hard to change what area of the firm u work in? like reading from a pevious post, if i went into a certain section... tax? how hard is it to change to another?
 

seremify007

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rmy888 said:
ahaha
vid was highlarious!

anywho, question... for a cadetship with the big4 is it hard to change what area of the firm u work in? like reading from a pevious post, if i went into a certain section... tax? how hard is it to change to another?
If u're willing to take a step back a bit (ie. go from been say an UG2 to an UG1) because you won't be experienced in the area, then it's not too difficult. I know quite a few ppl who changed from tax to assurance (both cadets and grads). If you change from within assurance to another BU (ie. diff client group) then it's even easier because the work is not that diff.
 

sickone

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Just wondering with the different divisions of Assurance, tax and advisory do they all have the same level of career prospects in terms of salary? And does audit just basically involve analysing financial reports?
 

shonkay

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While a large area of audit is looking over financials, it's not the only thing that happens- you have the wordy side too eg. looking to see if they are in compliance with legislation. That said, financials do occupy quite a bit of the job =)
 

seremify007

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sickone said:
Just wondering with the different divisions of Assurance, tax and advisory do they all have the same level of career prospects in terms of salary? And does audit just basically involve analysing financial reports?
Take a step back and think about what assurance actually involves from a high level perspective. As auditors, we are giving an audit opinion which is inserted into the financial statements to say that the financial figures the person is reading are a true and fair view of the company's actual financials. So naturally, if the audit opinion is to say that the book of numbers in front of them is reasonably accurate and any misstatements are unlikely to affect a decision the reader would make, it's only natural to expect that the prime work of a statuatory audit would require considerable analysis of financial reports. Pretty much all assurance-related work involves looking at some kind of financial report to obtain data from which assurance/comfort/confidence is required.

The key thing which changes over time is how you interpret financial reports, and how that affects the work which you are required to do. Sure at the start you'll be pretty much told what to do, but as you progress you start meeting with the client yourself with no support, you need to figure out where the risk areas are or balances with risk of material misstatement (i.e. big enough mistake to affect the decisions people would make when reading the financial statements), where you can gain comfort through various methods of testing whether it be controls validation, detailed testing, analytics/linkages, reasonableness, etc... and then apply that to the procedures you feel are necessary to gain comfort or confidence over the figures/balances in those financial reports.

.... then there's also the other non-statuatory audit work which is also very interesting, but it should be noted that you'll always need to look at some kind of financial report or statement... it's like an editor of a newspaper not wanting to read articles.

Btw with regards to your initial question... they all have different career paths and different journeys (bet you sick of hearing that in year12 English eh?). Go for the one which interests/appeals to you most and worry about the rest later. They all have different progression rates, different prospects and different salaries in the long-run (i'm talking after you've gotten CA or equivalent post-grad qualifications); but if you're uninterested and not enjoying the work, you won't last long enough to take advantage of the differences between the lines of service anyway so go with what you're interested in.

Mind you, I know people who changed between business units and lines of service quite easily... so it isn't the be-all end-all decision; but it sure helps if you pick a good one right from the start.
 

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i'm not really into accounting much, but i thought doing a cadetship would be a good way to get a foot in the door into the whole business field - which is what i'm into. i then thought, well once i've got my foot in, done that for a few years, i can always progress/change into other fields, or even major in something aside from accounting while i'm studying at uni.

i was initially looking at stuff like marketing, so accounting is a long shot away...having said that, is it a bad idea to do the cadetship for that reason of just getting into the whole 'commerce' field...? and then working my way from there?

i really like the idea of getting work experience, and am enthusiastic about the whole - getting to know people etc, just that i dont happen to be too crash hot on accounting.....
 
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Bobness

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^No

You'll probably feel compelled to leave after summer vacation work (ie prior to sem 1 uni in 08 starting) anyway, if you REALLY didn't like it so you might as well have a go.

My comm/law friend did that and earned a cool 2 grand just working in the month leading up to and incl. oweek.
 

seremify007

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-pari- said:
i'm not really into accounting much, but i thought doing a cadetship would be a good way to get a foot in the door into the whole business field - which is what i'm into. i then thought, well once i've got my foot in, done that for a few years, i can always progress/change into other fields, or even major in something aside from accounting while i'm studying at uni.

i was initially looking at stuff like marketing, so accounting is a long shot away...having said that, is it a bad idea to do the cadetship for that reason of just getting into the whole 'commerce' field...? and then working my way from there?

i really like the idea of getting work experience, and am enthusiastic about the whole - getting to know people etc, just that i dont happen to be too crash hot on accounting.....
1. How do you even know what Accounting in professional services firms really involve?

2. That being said, if you genuinely can't stand the fundamentals of accounting, even though we don't use them that often, you might not really enjoy the work we do. Whilst alot time is spent trying to understand how businesses work, the fundamental links between things is always at the back of your mind.

The connections you make are great, but what's the point of meeting people & clients if they think you're some half-assed person who is doing something they don't even want to do; and presumably, not really doing very well as a result of lack of interest. Is that really going to be a beneficial thing for you?

My advice to you is to try and find out what we do, see if it interests you. If you really don't find it interesting/appealing at all, then I'm inclined to think a cadetship is not the way to go. Remember the point of (most) cadetships is it's for people who intend to major in Accounting anyway (and it's not meant to convince you to do accounting), and that in an ideal situation, you will progress to do your CA later (which may require you to do additional subjects in uni too).
 

miss-smexy

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Yesterday I met 2 ppl who said that they quit their cadetships and 1 that said that they hate working at EY. hmmm...
 

roadcone

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miss-smexy said:
Yesterday I met 2 ppl who said that they quit their cadetships and 1 that said that they hate working at EY. hmmm...
i suggest that you don't make your decisions based on other peoples experiences.
 

miss-smexy

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roadcone said:
i suggest that you don't make your decisions based on other peoples experiences.
nah, I'm not. The long hours sound like a nightmare esp. right after the hsc. I'd definately choose the co-op over anything else.
 

seremify007

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Remember to take into account which division the people work in when you listen to their experiences! Some divisions (particularly FS) are known to work much longer hours than other divisions and thus have a very different work culture.
 

miss-smexy

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Vagabond said:
Long hours at times? Oh no!?

The real world isn't easy?! :O

What is this?!
LOl Vagabond I'll be happy to live in my own little microcosm for the next few years of uni. I want to prolong it, rather than enter the workforce immediately.

seremify007 said:
Remember to take into account which division the people work in when you listen to their experiences! Some divisions (particularly FS) are known to work much longer hours than other divisions and thus have a very different work culture.
True. You seem to love PWC.
 

201055

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I guess in the end the fundamental difference you can look at between the two is time, uni life and the long run.

With co-op (i speak only from experience of the UTS one):
- You complete the course in 3 years, fixed uni and internships (usually) hours
- You get a uni life (being orientated with 30 or so peers), and can network with a wider range of people within the university than just the business faculty
- If you are unsure as to where specifically you're heading in the business world, the co-op can give you a general outlook and wide exposure of all the disciplines available
- The possibility of employment opportunities across a variety of sponsor organisations in different areas both for part-time, vacational and graduate employment work
- In the long run, after 3 years, you'll carry about one year's worth of diverse work experience and have a good chance of employment with a sponsor organisation.

With the cadetship (from speaking with high- school friends who work there):
- You complete the course in 4+ years (2 by 2 block usually- 2 years working, 2 years studying at uni total, can be split to be half year studying, half year working)
- You get a more practical business experience- you can network with fellow peers within the organisation and clients more easier (depending on your performance)
- You participate within the organisation's own culture more actively (Eg. through functions, recruitment processes, parties, meetings, etc)
- In the long run, after 4+ years, you'll carry about 2 years full-time work experience, you'll have set up a reputation and connections within your organisation, and you'll most likely advance faster through your own organisation than a co-op grad (depending on your performance). However, this advantage only stands if the cadet remains in their own organisation- if they choose to move to another, chances are they'll have to start bottoms up like all grads again.

There's all these arguments that a co-op grad ends up at the same position as a cadet after the minimum 4 years, mainly because by the end each carries 2 years worth of work experience and are now employed with an organisaton. Whilst that is true, the difference here is that a co-op grad will have greater flexibility to enter into completely new fields depending on interest, but when competing directly with a cadet in their organisation will tend to rise up the ladder slower than the cadet, and this is mainly because the cadet does not have to be trained from the bottom up, has already established their connections and reputation, etc.

So i guess the ending decision you face is this: Are you sure of where you are heading? If you are, a cadetship will more likely give you a faster entry into that PARTICULAR field (Eg. Audit, Tax, Assurance, etc). If you're not, or you don't feel you want to be bound to a particular organisation or path yet, then the co-op will probably be the better choice, not to mention the uni or business lifestyle you want to undertake.

Sorry to those whose seen all this before, i'm just writing all the stuff down i said at yesterday's UTS bacc revue =)

*And yes, i was faced with the cadetship or co-op dilemma at the end of th year as well :D In the end i guess you just have to make a 'leap of faith' and commit to that choice. I chose the co-op and haven't regretted it since.
 

miss-smexy

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201055 said:
*And yes, i was faced with the cadetship or co-op dilemma at the end of th year as well :D In the end i guess you just have to make a 'leap of faith' and commit to that choice. I chose the co-op and haven't regretted it since.
How come you had to make the decision at the end of the year? Didn't they have like... cut off dates for accepting the cadetship? I have to make a decision by the end of this month!
 

Vagabond

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Whilst that is true, the difference here is that a co-op grad will have greater flexibility to enter into completely new fields depending on interest,
Completely new fields? We're talking about accounting at the end of the day. As for say, a finance-related field, I don't see why a co-op grad with a couple of accounting work placements would have an inherent advantage over somebody who has spent 2 years auditing banks.

A cadet also has the option of calling it quits after their 2 years of work (or really, at any time) leaving open the possibility of studying a double-degree or pursuing vacation work in a completely different field. I think the flexibility is always there.

I don't think its fair to say cadetships limit your career opportunities (what you imply) when a problem across the big4 is post-CA staff retainment!
 

201055

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miss-smexy said:
How come you had to make the decision at the end of the year? Didn't they have like... cut off dates for accepting the cadetship? I have to make a decision by the end of this month!
You can choose to accept the cadetship first (Sometime July/ August), but drop out later in favour of the co-op or any other course. All they'll do is give you the dirties :)
 

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