Colleges (accomodation) (2 Viewers)

[Lexicographer]

Originally posted by Daedalus
very well. i have emailed them.

Good. Sorry if my retorts seemed overly personal, but your arguments did have a long way to go before becoming convincing. Hopefully the official reply will clear things up.

Originally posted by Daedalus
and lexi, i WAS referring to rental properties when i made my comparism. im saying to be in trouble due to noise, u would have to make much mroe noise in a rental property than in college, because of the closer proximity of people in colleges. I dont make enough noise to wake neighbours living in the house next to me, but if i watch movies or play games, then yes, the person in the next room can hear

...what are you getting at? To me this seems to say "you can't get away with as much in colleges because people live closer together". This is perfectly logical and justifiable. They are, after all, in the next room and thus disturbing them would take a lot less. Hence the more restrictive rules.

Originally posted by Daedalus
and about the discrimination based on the q "why do u want to live in a college?", i have no specific example. i was merely saying that this question is pointless. Who will answer "when i come to college, i will make an effort to disrupt everyone"?

adn the question "what are your views on college life?" is worse. I agree that ppl should be discriminated by their actions, but to discriminate by thought is wrong. ppl are free to have whatever views they want without being discriminated

I think you are taking your definition of discrimination a bit too far. These two questions are designed to give applicants the oppurtunity to reveal what they expect to give and receive to the college. It becomes remarkably apparent to the applications office if an applicant is applying for the wrong reasons ("party atmosphere" rather than "studious atmosphere" etc) and they will take note of this before interview. Oh yeah, forgot about that. Interview is the point where they make most of their judgements. Nothing is more transparent in an interview than a person who is lying about their reasons, and if you try to lie your way into the college on paper this is where you're caught.

As for the apparent "discrimination based on thought" I think you're looking at it from the wrong point of view. Living in a residential college is not a right, it is a privilege. You are selected to live there at the administrator's leisure, and hence really don't have a say in whether or not you are suitable. It is their service to provide, and they do so within their own rules. Of course they have to follow the law, but so far nothing has been shown to prove any convincing form of undue discrimination being exercised on the part of the college. People ARE free to have whatever thoughts they like, but if these ideals will cause action that disrupts the lives of other people then the right to exclude the people who bear these thoughts is at the college's disposal.

 

[parry]

does anyone know much about basser or baxter because they're the ones im looking at if i go to unsw

 

[Daedalus]

they have replied, the internet is indeed 4.4c/mb, and they dont allow outside ISPs

another question for ppl who live in these colleges, is there alot of lanning? and if so, which one out of baxter, goldstien and basser has more lanning action?

u are right about trying to filter out ppl with thoughts that lead to actions that will disrupt others, but most, if not everyone dont go to college to disrupt as their main goal. i would say the main disruptions would come from ppl who, whilst they do not intend to disrupt, their loud or extreme partygoing nature makes it so. These ppl wont say "i want to go to college to be loud".

and i read the handbook, there are no interviews. selection is based on the app form

 

[Lexicographer]

Originally posted by Daedalus
they have replied, the internet is indeed 4.4c/mb, and they dont allow outside ISPs

Shocking! I was really hoping you were wrong about this.

Originally posted by Daedalus
u are right about trying to filter out ppl with thoughts that lead to actions that will disrupt others, but most, if not everyone dont go to college to disrupt as their main goal. i would say the main disruptions would come from ppl who, whilst they do not intend to disrupt, their loud or extreme partygoing nature makes it so. These ppl wont say "i want to go to college to be loud".

I'm not sure how clear I was in saying it, but what I meant was that they will attempt to read into the applicants interests and expectations to determine these potential problems. Of course they won't "intent" to disrupt people, but their natures may make them prone to do so anyway.

Originally posted by Daedalus
and i read the handbook, there are no interviews. selection is based on the app form

This I must say is really lame. I am now very glad I chose Shalom, where conditions are much much better.

Anyway, evidence is good. You were right about the internet, and I must say that while I was arguing on a general basis this is very poor performance on the part of the college.

 

[Jerry Springer]

Don't go to Goldstein...it's too small. Baxter is a much better, more diverse college. Although I have to say, I don't go much on the aesthetics of the whole place - very dark, dreary (has anyone seen the dining hall....yechhhhhhh)

 

[jm1234567890]

Originally posted by Lexicographer


This I must say is really lame. I am now very glad I chose Shalom, where conditions are much much better.

if only shalom was $100 cheaper....

 

[Lexicographer]

I think that's why it's so much better really. Because you're paying more. Of course, I'm only interested in Shalom and St John's (USyd) so really I can't complain. The prices and quality are about the same for both, and $300 is quite reasonable.

 

[s2ophie]

Originally posted by Daedalus
and i read the handbook, there are no interviews. selection is based on the app form

that is wrong. i have an interview for baxter in 3ish weeks. The applications are apparently a preliminary thing.

anyone have any advice for the interview?!?

 

[Daedalus]

does anyone know if the three UNSW kensington colleges are networked with each other? i know they are the rooms within each college are networked.

also, which college is best for lanning? seeing as internet is expensive, LANning has become top priority.

 

[Lexicographer]

Originally posted by s2ophie
that is wrong. i have an interview for baxter in 3ish weeks. The applications are apparently a preliminary thing.

anyone have any advice for the interview?!?

Dress casually but neatly. You'll obviously do well in that field, but there are some who do not realise that this is important. Be prepared to answer questions about why you chose their college, what you want out of your time there (both at uni and the college), what kind of life experiences you've had blah blah blah.

They basically want to find out more about you and the way you think about things, as well as what you think college is and how you'll fit in. I hear it's much more relaxed than job interviews, since YOU will be paying THEM to let you live there.

 

[Daedalus]

Im not very sure what are they looking for in these questions:

"Give examples of books, films, plays or music that you have enjoyed, and has influenced you in some way"

wtf??? what does this matter? a sensible and intelligent person shouldnt let fictional pieces influence him/her, but should instead rely on facts

i agree wiht the need to filter out ppl who may cause disruptions, but how does the q

"What are your major accomplishments?"

do so? just because someone hasnt achieved much doesnt mean he/she is a trouble maker...

i reckon all these questions are simple excuses and justification for the person in charge to use EXTREME prejudice and favour his/her friends

 

[Daedalus]

so which college is best for lanning?

and are the colleges networked with each other (the unsw didnt reply this q)

 

[Daedalus]

so which college is best for lanning?

and are the colleges networked with each other (the unsw didnt reply this q)

 

[Lexicographer]

ARGH you're making yourself sound ignorant again. Remember "lively and interesting community"!

Originally posted by Daedalus
"Give examples of books, films, plays or music that you have enjoyed, and has influenced you in some way"

This question is a jewel for revealing what people find interesting and why. You don't want a college full of dolts, you want people who can express their interests and show that they actually think about them. If you leave this question blank you look like a boring, mindless and illiterate fool, and yes the colleges will probably consider excluding you on these grounds.

Originally posted by Daedalus
"What are your major accomplishments?"

This question reflects the responder's perception of "achievements", as well as revealing their priorities regarding importance (difference between "major" and "minor"). You'd be surprised at how much people can read from answers to this kind of question when they know what they're looking for.

Originally posted by Daedalus
a sensible and intelligent person shouldnt let fictional pieces influence him/her, but should instead rely on facts

No. An intelligent and widely-read person is able to see into fiction beyond the surface message and into the thoughts of the composer. Just because something is fiction doesn't mean it isn't important, consider such works as Eroica (Beethoven) or The Three Musketeers (Dumas). They may not be factual accounts in themselves, but they ARE culturally imperative works of art, as well as a reflection of the times within which they were written. Only a dull and uncultured person would ignore the artistic fields in favour of "facts" - it would, after all, be very difficult to find a work of fact seperated from the culture of the day.

Originally posted by Daedalus
i reckon all these questions are simple excuses and justification for the person in charge to use EXTREME prejudice and favour his/her friends

Er...are you saying that all the people in colleges are friends of the college administrators? This seems a very shallow and bitter view of the college application process, one which has worked quite well for most people, as well as being considered fair on all counts by the university and the government, not to mention the general student populus. Perhaps you should focus on other modes of living, since you are so "shocked and appalled" by the criteria for college entry.

I forgot to ask this before, but could you please post the full contents of the college reply to your email? I am interested in seeing exactly what they said in response to your questions, as well as their justification (if any). I'd appreciate it.

 

[Daedalus]

quote:
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Originally posted by Daedalus
a sensible and intelligent person shouldnt let fictional pieces influence him/her, but should instead rely on facts
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No. An intelligent and widely-read person is able to see into fiction beyond the surface message and into the thoughts of the composer. Just because something is fiction doesn't mean it isn't important, consider such works as Eroica (Beethoven) or The Three Musketeers (Dumas). They may not be factual accounts in themselves, but they ARE culturally imperative works of art, as well as a reflection of the times within which they were written. Only a dull and uncultured person would ignore the artistic fields in favour of "facts" - it would, after all, be very difficult to find a work of fact seperated from the culture of the day.

well depends on how u define 'importance' in this case. whether a piece of fiction is 'important' or not is subjective. Some think Marilyn Manson is important, some think Shakespeare is, some have differing views.

Your post, together with the next line

"Only a dull and uncultured person would ignore the artistic fields in favour of "facts"

is suggestive that people who dont like, or dont share the view that supposedly 'major' works (like the examples u specified) are 'important' are somehow inferior and wrong, and should be excluded. Your terms, 'dull' and 'uncultured', used to describe people who 'ignore artistic fields in favour of "facts"' is very offensive. Again, whether someone or something is dull or not is purely subjective. Why are people (e.g scientists) who rely totally on facts 'uncultured'? they arent. they simply have a different culture to the humanities people. It is simply not fair to call them "boring, mindless and illiterate fool", as u have called them.

I again stress, the questions are totally inappropriate for the circumstances. People's likes, dislikes, and points of view, if they do not affect their actions, should be be judged. Especially in such a subjective fashion.

about the email, i only asked abotu hte internet. there were no other question to ask, except probably the one about the fines.

Er...are you saying that all the people in colleges are friends of the college administrators? This seems a very shallow and bitter view of the college application process, one which has worked quite well for most people, as well as being considered fair on all counts by the university and the government, not to mention the general student populus. Perhaps you should focus on other modes of living, since you are so "shocked and appalled" by the criteria for college entry.

Let me refine what i said. I am emphasising the fact that since the whole process is so subjective, the ppl in charge can exert favouritism with ample justification.

You say the process has worked quite well for many ppl. Why dont u ask the ppl who got excluded, and dont know y? i have a friend that was excluded, and he certainly isnt a troublemaker or disruptive person.

Dont get me wrong, i reckon living in a college would be awesome fun. Although there are disadvantages of fines and noise level, the advs outweigh them. the fact that all rooms and all colleges are networked would lead to some cool lanning action. The common eating times would provide a good opportunity to socialise. I just hate the application process.

 

[Lexicographer]

Thank you, Daedalus, for taking my statements completely out of context. There is not a word in my hundreds of posts that claims to presume that scientifically minded people are boring and uncultured. On the contrary, those with a more linear approach to life tend to also appreciate the fine arts. What you have done is made the assumption that art and science are mutually exclusive. Let me cite another example, the great Leonardo Da Vinci. Did you know that this master Renaissane scientist, and artist not only painted the Mona Lisa, but composed music, gave political critiques and made major advances in medical art (not to mention accurate sketches of anatomy). This man is probably the perfect debunking of what you say I have claimed: that those who derive truth from fact are uncultured and boring.

You also failed to read the last line in the first passage you quoted, here it is again:

Originally posted by Lexicographer
it would, after all, be very difficult to find a work of fact seperated from the culture of the day.

Science and culture are inseperable, as I have already pointed out. You may not agree that the examples I gave are truly "great" works, but is this relevant? NO. What IS relevant is what the applicant SAYS is relevant, and why. The college doesn't care WHAT you think is important, they care about WHY. If you think Marylin Manson is more important than Shakespeare, excellent, you have an original point of view. They want that in colleges, as long as you can show them WHY. WHAT reasons have you to say this? You could say that the invention of hot dogs was more important than the launch of Sputnik, and they would say "hmm, interesting", and want to know WHY. The point of the question is to gain an understanding of the way you perceive things. Lastly, note that the works I specified were examples. They are serve their purpose here to demonstrate the bridge between truth and fiction, which you seem not to have picked up. They are also an example of the relationship between one's tastes and one's thinking. What you DO at college isn't the only thing the powers that be are interested in. They also, as I have repeated exhaustively, are eager to admit interesting students with a diverse array of ideas and experiences. If you can not explain why you think something you will not stand a chance in a college filled door to door with people. What you like and dislike may not affect what you do, but they (much more importantly) affect what you say, and thus the questions are far more relevant than you give them credit for.

Please refrain from oversimplyfying what I have to say in order to refute it, because it becomes extremely tiresome to repeat my arguments and explanations.

 

[jm1234567890]

lol, this thread is supposed to be about colleges.......

not arguments about science and culture

 

[Lexicographer]

It's excellent argument practice though. Law hopefuls take note!

 

[Daedalus]

the core of my arg (in relation to the importance of text) lies not in disputing your examples of texts, but in disputing the requirement that someone is to be influenced by any text.

i agree with your da vinci part. He pioneered science as well as appreciated 'fine arts'. He would quite likely do vert well in the college application. Again, your relevance? imagine a da vinci character, whom pioneered science, but did not paint, or listen to music, or watch plays, but had other interests, such as sport. Will be be able to answer the question about the texts influencing him? no. he will have to leave it blank, and as u say:

If you leave this question blank you look like a boring, mindless and illiterate fool, and yes the colleges will probably consider excluding you on these grounds.

would it be fair excluding him?

u say: "those with a more linear approach to life tend to also appreciate the fine arts."
which may or may not be true. My example of scientists did not generalise that ALL scientists dont appreciate the so called 'fine arts'. it simply meant that some people, eg SOME scientists (not all) TOTALLY rely on facts. I know that i only rely on facts.
lets not argue about whether what scientists like or dislike. its irrelevant to the main issue - that i think the college applications is unfair.

it would, after all, be very difficult to find a work of fact seperated from the culture of the day.

i know argueing against this is offtrack, but how about newton's findings of calculus? how is that related to his 'culture'.

****EDIT: In summary, what im saying is that people who do not get influenced by texts are NOT BORING, are NOT MINDLESS and CERTAINLY should NOT be excluded. Whether someone is boring or not is purely subjective.

The college application is subjective

 

[s2ophie]

ok here is my two cents. i haven't thoroughly read everything about what you two have been arguing about but here goes:

The questions are designed as a BASIS for your interview. The colleges want a diverse range of people and they want people to be honest on their interview. There is no point saying that you love all high'brow literature or only non-fiction because it doesn't show a great diversity of interests which allow you to fit in with other people at the college.

Originally posted by Daedalus

"What are your major accomplishments?"

do so? just because someone hasnt achieved much doesnt mean he/she is a trouble maker...

I disagree. Your major accomplishments do not have to be academic, sporting or cultural. For some people the fact that they have consistently worked to the best of their ability at school or that they have a strong group of friends might be their major accomplishment.

All i can say is fill in the bloody form if you want to go to the colleges. Stop picking it to pieces and accept that if you want to get in that is what you have to do. And instead of writing essay length responses to someone over the internet, post in your form asap. Interviews are held in november and if you hadn't noticed, today is november the third which diesn't leave a lot of time for them to receive your application, read through it, contact you, organise an interivew time etc.