Compulsory uni service fees to be reintroduced (2 Viewers)

[katie tully]

I cannot condone this.

 

[Iron]

These are fringe anarchist views.
Rudd Labor will defeat you

 

[Iron]

And we hope that you will!
Within the union

 

[withoutaface]

I run through one person's access card payment every time I use a cabcharge to get home from a board meeting.

 

[Silver Persian]

To be honest I haven't noticed a decline in student vibrancy since the removal of compulsory student unionism.

 

[loquasagacious]

Yes but the financial incentive forces all potential leaders out of the woodwork. It offers redemption to the politically minded who commit the sin of a commerce degree. Without this incentive, our talent pool is left to stagnate.

Oh you do flatter me so. But unfortunately I must confess that even were I paying CSU (as it soon seems I will), that I wouldn't get involved in student politics - and I daresay the vast majority of commerce students agree.

As much as you may postulate that CSU will see people fighting for and caring about the unions and their expenditure I'm just not seeing it. If we look back through ANU's record of student politics are there momentous moments where students turned out to vote in elections and the fate of the union budget was decided by powerful rhetoric?

Lets face it the same handful of students would get involved in student politics regardless of CSU/VSU and the same people will aspire to careers as staffers for pollies and lobyists for unions, before they make their transition, stack a branch for themselves and stand for parlimanent.

As for the argument that the right should have engaged the left on the field rather than attacked their supply routes. I wonder what would happen if a right candidate ran on the platform of re-introducing VSU on their campus? Is it within the purview of their responsibilities? If not then it's really not a level playing field.

Note 1: I would actually love to see an election where the campus right ran on a platform of giving all students a cash handout equal to their CSU fee.

Note 2: My only disappointment with VSU has been because ANU propped up the union/anusa the shitty union court 'food' court was not forced to improve. Instead they forced out one of the few good places (private enterprise) on campus to make way for a union grocers.

 

[xeuyrawp]

Money removed by coercion is theft.

Tax = theft.

Thanks for playing.

But many people, such as Hobbes, would argue that taxation by the state ensures that society functions. No tax = state of nature = Lord of the Flies. Therefore, you're obliged to pay tax the same way that you're obliged not to kill anyone.

That social contract of taxation in the state clearly does not extend into something like university, though, where people are free to come and go and are thus consumers and not part of any social obligation to pay tax in this sense. You effectively have to live in a society (or you live outside of them). If you do not want to pay tax, you live in a state of nature, eg literally isolated by yourself in the wild or in a prison. However you do not have to be part of a university any more than you have to buy a green t-shirt. Should we introduce a green t-shirt tax?

I believe this reasoning, which differentiates between membership to a society and membership in a university, sinks any analogy of state taxation and university union taxation which is frequently brought up.

I find that frequently in response to this, people bring up utilitarianism. Yes, VSU may be more beneficial for the group, however that is not the argument here.

 

[withoutaface]

But many people, such as Hobbes, would argue that taxation by the state ensures that society functions. No tax = state of nature = Lord of the Flies. Therefore, you're obliged to pay tax the same way that you're obliged not to kill anyone.

That social contract of taxation in the state clearly does not extend into something like university, though, where people are free to come and go and are thus consumers and not part of any social obligation to pay tax in this sense. You effectively have to live in a society (or you live outside of them). If you do not want to pay tax, you live in a state of nature, eg literally isolated by yourself in the wild or in a prison. However you do not have to be part of a university any more than you have to buy a green t-shirt. Should we introduce a green t-shirt tax?

I believe this reasoning, which differentiates between membership to a society and membership in a university, sinks any analogy of state taxation and university union taxation which is frequently brought up.

I find that frequently in response to this, people bring up utilitarianism. Yes, VSU may be more beneficial for the group, however that is not the argument here.

Yes, but Hobbes is a stuffed tiger.

 

[jb_nc]

I don't remember signing any contract???

 

[xeuyrawp]

Yes, but Hobbes is a stuffed tiger.

:-( Way to break my reality.

Seriously, though, I really don't think that the 'we pay taxes on a federal, state, council level, why shouldn't we at uni' argument has any weight at all.

 

[withoutaface]

I don't remember signing any contract???

That argument and some of the following libertarian arguments are commonly quoted from Lysander Spooner.

The constitution and the laws are our written contracts with the government.

There are several explicit means by which people make the social contract with government. The commonest is when your parents choose your residency and/or citizenship after your birth. In that case, your parents or guardians are contracting for you, exercising their power of custody. No further explicit action is required on your part to continue the agreement, and you may end it at any time by departing and renouncing your citizenship.

Immigrants, residents, and visitors contract through the oath of citizenship (swearing to uphold the laws and constitution), residency permits, and visas. Citizens reaffirm it in whole or part when they take political office, join the armed forces, etc. This contract has a fairly common form: once entered into, it is implicitly continued until explicitly revoked. Many other contracts have this form: some leases, most utility services (such as phone and electricity), etc.

Some libertarians make a big deal about needing to actually sign a contract. Take them to a restaurant and see if they think it ethical to walk out without paying because they didn't sign anything. Even if it is a restaurant with a minimum charge and they haven't ordered anything. The restaurant gets to set the price and the method of contract so that even your presence creates a debt. What is a libertarian going to do about that? Create a regulation?

 

[SAVAK]

one day these leftist mofos will feel the wrath of my fist.

 

[withoutaface]

I wouldn't have thought you'd been noticing much of anything lately.

http://murdochqueercollective.blogspot.com/2008/06/vsu-kills-queers.html

 

[boris]

Yeah I'm on a GPA of 5.4, VSU has been heaps bad for my academic results. I'm sure being able to afford text books because one doesn't have to pay $400+ in fees is really hurting other people's academic results too.

lol fuck off your gpa is like 2

 

[whatashotbyseve]

I cannot fathom how this is defensible.

I eat at the Macquarie Centre, so I don't need a food subsidy. I don't have kids, so no use for subsidised childcare. If I want to go to the gym I will happily pay for it. I don't drink on campus - thats what bars are for. I go to uni, study, and will finish up my degree at the end of the year. I am apathetic to all union policies.

Why should I have to pay $200 just to watch the union throw it away on dodgy initiatives that help absolutely no-one?

 

[SashatheMan]

OMG not this crap again. I am doing uni parttime currently, and i have no time even if i wanted to do any of the uni activities offered.

 

[katie tully]

lol fuck off your gpa is like 2

Uh no, that's yours. The fail for stats didn't go on my transcript for the double degree, and neither did my original fail for chem.

I have no fails on my double degree, and lots of credits and the odd distinction.

Suck it.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

yeh but it's csu so it doesnt count

 

[Iron]

I cannot fathom how this is defensible.

I eat at the Macquarie Centre, so I don't need a food subsidy. I don't have kids, so no use for subsidised childcare. If I want to go to the gym I will happily pay for it. I don't drink on campus - thats what bars are for. I go to uni, study, and will finish up my degree at the end of the year. I am apathetic to all union policies.

Why should I have to pay $200 just to watch the union throw it away on dodgy initiatives that help absolutely no-one?

We hope that you will eat and drink union, with your student family. Inebriated inhibitions are the foundation of all things academic.
We also hope that you take advantage of cheaper gyms. Healthy mind, healthy body, greater good

 

[boris]

Uh no, that's yours. The fail for stats didn't go on my transcript for the double degree, and neither did my original fail for chem.

I have no fails on my double degree, and lots of credits and the odd distinction.

Suck it.

sweet mines 6