Crazy ATAR differences from MAIN round to EARLY FEBRUARY round offers. (2 Viewers)

tricks08

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It's a flawed system using ATAR for university applications. Often, high ATAR scores won't be a reflection of how a student performs. University learning is a completely different kettle of fish to school learning. Intelligence matters, but hard work and dedication matters a lot more. I've had friends who got very high ATAR/OP/UAI's and didn't perform anywhere near as well as expected. I've also had friends who did poorly in Year 12 and got excellent marks at university, including one University Medallist (lucky bitch). It will be nice once university places are uncapped in 2012. Courses filled by demand, placing more emphasis on a students performance at university due to a larger number of potential graduates, will be better for all. I'm not sure whether ATAR will be abolished though. Maybe courses will only be available to students level e.g

Engineering available to any student with an ATAR over 80
or/
Engineering available to any student with the following scores in the following subjects

I'll be interested to see how it works.
hmm uncapped universities in 2012? seems hardly fair for us now though .. plus placing larger courses due to their demand could see out the courses with smaller numbered students , since then everyone with ATARS above , lets say .. 85 will want to become engineers or architectures cause of the ease of having less competition to get into that course ..

but yeah. interesting idea .. :uhhuh:
 

LordPc

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i think y'all are discussing something which is pointless

there is the whole demand/supply approach about why atars flucuate but clearly there are more variables in play than we are aware. it may just be that there is no body to check that the published atar cutoffs are correct so that uni's just set them to be whatever they want

people, even in this thread, have mentioned how the ATAR is just a number and is not an accurate reflection of what a student is capable of. so why should we expect the ATAR cutoff of a course to be an accurate reflection of anything either
 

oliverbedon89

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They may not have met the basic requirements for Macq. Different uni's have a different set of basic requirements I do believe.
Arts have a requirement? ;)

But seriously though, it was weird. He had Arts at Macquarie, UNSW and Sydney as first, second and third preferences respectively. And had Arts/Edu in Macquarie and UNSW as next preferences then some other units, putting UWS Arts in bottom. But all of the courses that he put above are lower than the UWS Arts one. I'm just surprised it's 98.30 and the fact that he got in that one but couldn't get into 80s-90s one, maybe it could be a mistake? Though UAI / ATAR is just a number showing how popular the course has been in the late round...
 

chefman21

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the ATAR is just a number and is not an accurate reflection of what a student is capable of. so why should we expect the ATAR cutoff of a course to be an accurate reflection of anything either
Exactly. That's what makes the system so flawed. There are very few courses that require a great ATAR as a prerequisite. Medicine & Science. Definitely. Without question. A lot only require a good ATAR, with an emphasis on the subjects studied. Such as Engineering. Does an Engineer need great English? Or is is more important they have great marks in 2U or preferably 3U/4U maths as well as the sciences. Some courses I don't think need to have an ATAR as high as they do. Commerce and Business. No way. Above average marks in English and Maths should really be it. Arts? Unless it's a "proper" arts course where you need to submit work such as paintings, drawings, poetry or audition with an instrument, I'm not sure how some courses can get as high as 99.95. Law? 99.95? I don't think so. I expect lawyers to be quite intelligent, but not needing marks required to be a doctor or scientist. I think the system should be reset at the end of each year, with a par score required to get in.

For example:
97.00 for Medicine
80 for Commerce or Business
90 for Law
A certain level achieved in Maths and the Sciences for Engineering.
 

bec_peace

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Can someone explain this to me? I dont understand... I thought the ATAR would go down.
 

sickk

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chefman, you got to understand unis have limited resources, sure you might not have to hit 99 to perform well in law, except theres more ppl who get over 90 then there are resources to teach those students. so whats th ebest way of picking them, eg we can only take 100 students but 500 applied. therefore we take the top 100 students, in comes the ATAR
 

chefman21

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That's why the government has decided to spend $490 million dollars on improving teaching quality/ratio's and to allow demand driven university selection by 2012. Good move I think.


What I'm saying is that ATAR/UAI/OP etc is not the be all and end all of selection and is not always the best way to pick students. How often are students picking law or medicine, simply because of the pay or it is the thing to do. Ten years ago, it was IT. And how many of those students get towards the end of their degrees and realise they made the wrong choice, or that they weren't up to the standard required for university, despite what ATAR they got. Statistically, approx 20% of first year students transfer or defer, due to poor course choices or an inability to reproduce the same quality they showed in high school.

The current system is reasonable, but I think it could be done a lot better. Whether it's selective testing, interviews or what, I don't know. But I think there is a better way. As I said before, I also think the mark should be reset to a par level at the end of each selection period, to give those students who may not have got the mark required to get into the course they want a chance to prove they can do it. I'm happy for them to do that and transfer, rather than picking a course they weren't sure they wanted to do and then transfer.

I also think it comes down to guidance in schools. I can barely remember my career advisor sitting down with me to have a chat about what I wanted to do or even just to give me some ideas in grades 9 and 10. Some of my peers felt the same way further down the track (6 or 7 years later). They are between two high schools, so it may well be over a large group of schools. A little guidance for those who aren't sure what they want to do goes a long way.
 

rajputsingh

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Arts have a requirement? ;)

But seriously though, it was weird. He had Arts at Macquarie, UNSW and Sydney as first, second and third preferences respectively. And had Arts/Edu in Macquarie and UNSW as next preferences then some other units, putting UWS Arts in bottom. But all of the courses that he put above are lower than the UWS Arts one. I'm just surprised it's 98.30 and the fact that he got in that one but couldn't get into 80s-90s one, maybe it could be a mistake? Though UAI / ATAR is just a number showing how popular the course has been in the late round...

They may have a minimum ATAR requirement.
 

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