degree decision (1 Viewer)

[marsenal]

At the moment I am still undecided as to what I want to do at uni next year. Basically at the moment I have narrowed it down to two: either Com/Law@USyd or Actuary@UNSW.
On the one hand I have wanted to do law since like year 5. However, the older I have gotten the more I have though that I probably wont want to become like a practicing solicitor or lawyer, but at the same time I think the law degree would be very useful for options for later on.
On the other hand I do like maths, and the prospect of a shorter degree. If there are any current actuary students here, could you please give me your thoughts on actuary.
Overall I do like humanities, but also the prospect of earning lots of money and fast (that's actually another reason why the actuary is more appealing than the law since it's shorter, and I do realise that it takes longer to get your FIAA). So what do you guys think?
Also I have considered other degrees and even Actuary/Law@Macq. So if you're going to reply, please don't suggest other degrees or other unis or anything, because that would simply complicate my decision. Thanks!

 

[ND]

I am in almost exactly the same situation as you. I can't decide between acst@macq and commerce/law@unsw or usyd... I'm hoping i have some sort of epiphany before the 5th.

Don't do acst/law@macq; the macq law degree is supposed to be crap. Just wondering, why do you want to do acst@unsw and not at macq?

 

[dvse]

Do law/acst at UNSW ? I believe this combination is now allowed.

My view is that it's best to get exposure to as many different things as possible.

For example professional accounting qualifications are highly regarded in the industry so why not do law/acct and at the same time get yr actl Part I through IA UK correspondense courses ?

On the other hand it is hardly an inspiring course and you can consider something else like maths or finance. It will still give you a considerably broader education.

The downside is that you will miss out on networking with other actl students, which is extremely important given the small size of the profession.

 

[Minai]

mm I agree with dvse, if time isnt that big an issue
u can do Actuary/Law @ UNSW - best of both worlds I guess, if ur prepared to work hard for it

 

[marsenal]

Thanks for the replies so far.
In regard to accounting...from what I know it just seems to flat and the pay isn't that brilliant either. Isn't there the old joke "What's the difference between accounting and actuary?"- "10K just in the first year" or something like that.
I have thought about Actuary/Law @ both UNSW and Macq, but it seems the workload it just too massive. Isn't the drop out rate like huge?
On the one hand it is nice getting the best of both worlds as people say, but is it really necessary? I've actually been of the "best of both worlds" opinion for a long time, but the more I have though about it recently, the more I realise that the demand for actuaries is quite sufficient for the forseeable future, and if that doesn't eventuate then there is the possibility of grad law. Although that does mean an extended time at uni.
So it would seem that I am probably leaning towards actuary at the moment. However at the same time, the little voice keeps repeating to me that I have wanted to do com/law for a very long time. Again the employment prospects for someone with that degree would seem to be quite great and so would the pay.
I've got another question...which degree is more friendly for someone wanting to eventually start their own business. Like is it easier to open up a law firm, or a consultancy firm linked with actuary, etc.

Btw ND, I too hope that I will have some sort of epiphany on or before Jan 5.

 

[Constip8edSkunk]

im in a similar situation except its med instead of law (although if i get rejected by UNSW... it'll make it alot easier), so im kinda biased towards actuary.

imho, i dont think time is much of an issue here. as the couple of years quickly evens out. as you have an interest in it, com law would suit u. you can do actuary/law @ unsw but it doesnt get the full PART 1 exemptions. of course you can complete it outside uni and that will be a bit longer. or you can do as dvse suggested. but yeah the workload would be ...

the first year wages shouldnt be that much of a difference, cuz it could be alot higher esp. when you complete the part 1/2 for the AIAA...

i also think despite the unis pumping out 7000 commerce graduate a year, there would be enough of a market to encompass it, imho there would actually b a pretty good demand if you have good academic results/work experience etc.... which you can definitely get with the co op.

if arent as interested in accounting, then actuary would be better. besides the work experience/connections would be priceless

so yeah i'd go for actuary... but yeah hope you get taht epiphany

my 2 cents

edit: dunno bout which is more friendly at starting your own business, though i'd thought actuary is much more companies based rather than starting your own business.

 

[flyin']

(I'm feelin' lazy, atm.)

Anyway, the quality of teaching at MQ and its standards in regards to Actuarial Studies is better than UNSW. So if you want to focus on becoming an actuary, MQ would be the place.

The best of both worlds, eh? A good friend of mine, at MQ, is doing ACST at MQ, and then Law at USyd; now that is best of both worlds.

 

[dvse]

You could be an independent consulting actuary doing things like statutory valuations of small defined benefit funds, appraising financial position of DIY super schemes etc. Hardly exciting work but you can probably make a decent living.

If you want to be a consultant to the big end of town, considerable experience in the industry is a must.

So in this regard a law (or accounting ?) degree is likely better.

And yeah if you are offered a place in actl coop program, TAKE IT. A better start to a career is difficult to come by.

Also, I don't think work load for law/actl will be that high, compared to just actl. According to a friend of mine one can get a CR average in law without trying very much at all (DN and above are much harder). You can always drop law if it proves too intense.

Also you should consider that there is a substantial chance that you will not get a good average in actl degree (DN is hard, HD virtually impossible) and that can affect yr chances of being admitted into grad law should you choose it.

Having said that, I should mention that it is quite unlikely that you will be able to find an actuarial position where your law degree will be of much use (it could potentially work the other way arround). I think maths, stats, computer science / software engineering, accounting or finance are the areas that would offer the greatest benefit .

 

[dvse]

I concur with flyin' ; p

 

[ND]

Originally posted by dvse


Also you should consider that there is a substantial chance that you will not get a good average in actl degree (DN is hard, HD virtually impossible) and that can affect yr chances of being admitted into grad law should you choose it.

But surely you could explain this to the Dean?

 

[marsenal]

A few more questionsFirstly, on completing their com/law degree what do most people end up doing? And how long does it take them to find a stable well-paid job?
Also, with postgrad lawwhat are the exact requirements?

 

[Minai]

Originally posted by marsenal
A few more questionsFirstly, on completing their com/law degree what do most people end up doing? And how long does it take them to find a stable well-paid job?
Also, with postgrad lawwhat are the exact requirements?

Well, looking at the good uni's guide...law and commerce graduates are very successful in attaining jobs after they graduate, (ie UNSW figues...off the top of my head 2% of law graduates still looking for work and 4% of commerce graduates still looking for work) - wat u end up doing depends on what ur looking for..a career in straight aw or a career in the business world (business law?)
finding a well-paid job as a graduate isnt easy...the money comes as u get more experienced

 

[jpr333]

Talked to someone who works in one of the big law partnerships/firms (forget name) but she says they look for the high high achievers, averaging HD's through law. She also said they work like dogs, 12 hour days, but get paid 200 an hour- straight out of graduation

 

[dvse]

$200 * 12 hrs * 250 days = $600k

Not likely.

 

[pigs_can_fly]

this is from last year's smh:

" a newly qualified lawyer working in a large Sydney CBS practice could expect to earn 48-60k. this figure takes 5 years' training and some work experience into account. it also reflects the market. there's a strong demand for quality candidates and companies are prepared to pay.

after 10 years, someone workig in a top CBD practice can earn between 135 and 220k, the average is 165k. people earning this amount would be highly skilled and doing hard, complex work. a lawyer at this level would typically work a 58-hour week. the average for people with 10 years' experience at a small suburban law firm is 115k.

there are lawyers with 20 years' experience earning "well into 7 figures", being mainly top equity partners in major city firms. more typically, partners can earn between 300 and 600k - in a good year. in times of recession, they might earn less thatn salaried senior associates"

hope this clears up the pay issue to some extent

 

[marsenal]

With the pay I did have an idea it was something like that. And also unfortunately I did have an idea of the hours too. Thats one of the unappealing things about law, although I also do understand that Actuary is a lot of hard work too.
I think at the moment I am still leaning towards actuary, with the possibility of postgrad law after. But I do intend on going to the open days at both UNSW and Usyd and making that final decision on the deadline. I really do hope that the epiphany comes

 

[jpr333]

Yeah thinks she said charge others/clients this amount, dont know if this necessarily means total salary/pay from the firm itself

 

[alman]

i think the best thing is heading toward owning your own business or a share of one..there's nothing else as well paying as that...i think that really answers the question

 

[pigs_can_fly]

hei marsenal, wot uai did u get? and didn't u get a coop for accounting as well? wot about that?

 

[dvse]

For corporate actuaries hours are usually around 40 per week, with some overtime possible around deadlines for major reports.

In consulting hours can be much longer on occasion but generally it's around 40-45 as well.