discussion re: Speer (1 Viewer)

[jacqui_2005]

What do you think his attitudes were to the Nazi Party before and after WWII?

 

[rama_v]

I reckon he supported the Nazis in total, knew what the party was about, knew about its anti-semitic polices and its death camps and he was responsible at least in part for the fate of the slave labourers in Germany. Having said that after the war Speer was a failed penitent in my opinion. He never once admitted he knew about the things that he did, and he tried to cover up to save face. In truth he was quite different to the other Nazis who were from bad and rough backgrounds - he came from a middle class distinguished family - but that still doesnt mean hes innocent of terrible crimes against humanity...So IMO yeah I dont think he was truly sorry for his crimes.

 

[Iron]

I think he was probably more of a careerist and never specifically attached himself to Nazi ideology, (that we know of).
I think that the Nazi system dictated that the closer you were to Hitler, the more power you had. He was lured by power, who wouldn't be? That's why he had no problem cutting loose from the party's ideas.
I think he had a consistent indifference towards Nazi ideology and an interest in what he could gain from it. He leaks a bit of this idea in 'Inside the third Reich' when he says "To recieve a commission for a great public building, I would have sold my soul like Faust". IMO Speer was into Speer. Of course, this doesn't excuse what happened under his command.

 

[kirabolton]

rama i disagree with you to some degree, although i guess Speer must have accepted, encouraged and supported nazi ideology, i think he is more complicated than you make him out to be. I don't think he had anything to do with the actual deathcamps, or even intentionally setting out to murder Jews, i think he was entirely responsible for bad conditions for slaves, and deserves to be condemed for that. I think he did know about the Jews being murdered, and just tried to convince himself it had nothing to do with him. Morally, he obviously must have been against these actions in later life, he tried so hard to clean his name. And although this would have been for selfish reasons it shows he was never a hard core nazi like some of the others. He's probably tried so hard to convince himself he has no blame that over time it actually did work. Are his crimes (regarding the death camps) that terrible in comparison to others? I'm sure so many people knew about them and either if Speer openly admited he knew and tried to stop them i honestly doubt he could of. Speer probably knew this and was so involved with his own job and personal glory that it was just easier to ignore them and pretend it wasn't happening.

 

[Iron]

Im not too sure about how absorbed in his work he was. His real talent was in delegation. I used to think of him as akin to Oscar Schindler, but his remorse was never really convincing.

 

[rama_v]

rama i disagree with you to some degree, although i guess Speer must have accepted, encouraged and supported nazi ideology, i think he is more complicated than you make him out to be. I don't think he had anything to do with the actual deathcamps, or even intentionally setting out to murder Jews, i think he was entirely responsible for bad conditions for slaves, and deserves to be condemed for that. I think he did know about the Jews being murdered, and just tried to convince himself it had nothing to do with him. Morally, he obviously must have been against these actions in later life, he tried so hard to clean his name. And although this would have been for selfish reasons it shows he was never a hard core nazi like some of the others. He's probably tried so hard to convince himself he has no blame that over time it actually did work. Are his crimes (regarding the death camps) that terrible in comparison to others? I'm sure so many people knew about them and either if Speer openly admited he knew and tried to stop them i honestly doubt he could of. Speer probably knew this and was so involved with his own job and personal glory that it was just easier to ignore them and pretend it wasn't happening.

Yes, I must admit I do agree that he was not as 'evil' as the rest of the nazis and yes, he was an extremely complicated figure in many aspects. Pure evil is not definitely not the way to describe Speer, yet, I find it hard to see how a man of such a background could end up with some of the biggest lowlifes the world has ever seen...he did try to convince himself that he had no part to play, perhaps the knowledge that he was complicit was in the crimes was too much to bear (and thats understandable)...its quite tragic actually in many aspects. He just got caught up with the wrong crew, adn his lust for power led him further than he would have imagined. One must give him credit for at least saving some of germany's infrastructure when hitler ordered the scorched earth policy and he disobeyed.

About the Jews, perhaps he did not wish to intentionally murder the Jews, I would agree with that (I think he had jewish friends in uni) too. But I think his primal sin was the conditions of the slave labourers, not the extermination camps...he knew the camps were there (like the dora factory), he even visited them, yet he didnt do anything abotu it...

 

[Iron]

I wouldn't give him credit for saving Germany's infrastructure.
Much of it was bombed anyway. Anyone with half a brain could see germany would loose. He was trying to mitigate his impending punishment and it probably saved his skin.

 

[sunjet]

Being Hitler's only friend and second man in power I'd have to say he what was going on during the course of the war. Mainly I think he cared about Germany in general and was power-hungry and knew the Nazi's were in power and would continue to be.. meh you could discuss this for ever. atm i'm reading his book Inside the Third Reich - well bits of it.

 

[rama_v]

I wouldn't give him credit for saving Germany's infrastructure.
Much of it was bombed anyway. Anyone with half a brain could see germany would loose. He was trying to mitigate his impending punishment and it probably saved his skin.

Yes, that is one way of looking at it, I guess the essay question would determine which way I decide to lean, lol i no longer do modern so I dont have to worry about it

In any case he was at least in a *little bit* of danger when he refused to implement the scorched earth policy but again as you rightly pointed out it could be argued that it was for selfish reasons again...

 

[sunjet]

Yes, that is one way of looking at it, I guess the essay questino would sway which way I decide to lean, lol i no longer do modern so I dont have to worry about it
In any case he was at least in a *little bit* of danger when he refused to implement the scorched earth policy but again as you rightly pointed out it could be argued that it was for selfish reasons again...

sif drop modern!

 

[rama_v]

sif drop modern!

No, I didnt drop modern lol
http://www.boredofstudies.org/community/showthread.php?t=67184

 

[rama_v]

give me your essays on Speer

How much will you pay me lol
Speak to me on msn

 

[glycerine]

i've been reading the secret spandau diaries he wrote and it's just such self indulgent shit. i mean from what i know otherwise and what i read in there, i just get this vibe that he's playing a game to avoid blame insofar as he could having been sentenced to 20 years in prison. it could be the translation (since obviously he didn't write it in english) but the way he writes and approaches it is so superficial and shallow even when he's trying to philosophically explain hitler's appeal or whatever

 

[sunjet]

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/05/11/wspeer11.xml

 

[glycerine]

this document contains no data?

edit: don't worry, it was just mozilla - i tried it in i.e. and it worked fine