Does God Exist? (2 Viewers)

[lukebennett]

That's close to what I belive, unless you are fundamentalist it is accepted by Christians that creation story is a myth. A myth is not true but has some meaning to it

i dont think it is a myth i just think it was what happened but explained with symbolism or whatever. i get what you mean though

 

[acmilan]

Its not just about the christian god, it also can refer to the islamic and jew god, which is basically the same and to a lesser extent the gods of hinduism

 

[physician]

If one believes that a living cell can come into existence by coincidence, then there is nothing to prevent one from believing a similar story that we will relate below. It is the story of a town:

One day, a lump of clay, pressed between the rocks in a barren land, becomes wet after it rains. The wet clay dries and hardens when the sun rises, and takes on a stiff, resistant form. Afterwards, these rocks, which also served as a mould, are somehow smashed into pieces, and then a neat, well shaped, and strong brick appears. This brick waits under the same natural conditions for years for a similar brick to be formed. This goes on until hundreds and thousands of the same bricks have been formed in the same place. However, by chance, none of the bricks that were previously formed are damaged. Although exposed to storm, rain, wind, scorching sun, and freezing cold for thousands of years, the bricks do not crack, break up, or get dragged away, but wait there in the same place with the same determination for other bricks to form.

When the number of bricks is adequate, they erect a building by being arranged sideways and on top of each other, having been randomly dragged along by the effects of natural conditions such as winds, storms, or tornadoes. Meanwhile, materials such as cement or soil mixtures form under "natural conditions", with perfect timing, and creep between the bricks to clamp them to each other. While all this is happening, iron ore under the ground is shaped under "natural conditions" and lays the foundations of a building that is to be formed with these bricks. At the end of this process, a complete building rises with all its materials, carpentry, and installations intact.

Of course, a building does not only consist of foundations, bricks, and cement. How, then, are the other missing materials to be obtained? The answer is simple: all kinds of materials that are needed for the construction of the building exist in the earth on which it is erected. Silicon for the glass, copper for the electric cables, iron for the columns, beams, water pipes, etc. all exist under the ground in abundant quantities. It takes only the skill of "natural conditions" to shape and place these materials inside the building. All the installations, carpentry, and accessories are placed among the bricks with the help of the blowing wind, rain, and earthquakes. Everything has gone so well that the bricks are arranged so as to leave the necessary window spaces as if they knew that something called glass would be formed later on by natural conditions. Moreover, they have not forgotten to leave some space to allow the installation of water, electricity and heating systems, which are also later to be formed by coincidence. Everything has gone so well that "coincidences" and "natural conditions" produce a perfect design.

If you have managed to sustain your belief in this story so far, then you should have no trouble surmising how the town's other buildings, plants, highways, sidewalks, substructures, communications, and transportation systems came about. If you possess technical knowledge and are fairly conversant with the subject, you can even write an extremely "scientific" book of a few volumes stating your theories about "the evolutionary process of a sewage system and its uniformity with the present structures". You may well be honoured with academic awards for your clever studies, and may consider yourself a genius, shedding light on the nature of humanity.

The theory of evolution, which claims that life came into existence by chance, is no less absurd than our story, for, with all its operational systems, and systems of communication, transportation and management, a cell is no less complex than a city.

 

[acmilan]

i dont think it is a myth i just think it was what happened but explained with symbolism or whatever. i get what you mean though

Yeh exactly...by myth i meant that the way it is told is not necessarily how it happened...the most important thing to take from it is that God created it

 

[physician]

We are in a thread realtinng to the christian god - Einstein was a Jew by the way. So he did beleive in the same god and presumably to some extent in genesis.

the thread says: Does God Exist: NOT Does the God of christianity exist

 

[snapperhead]

As I said.....

Are you a protestant? (no this isn't leading to an insult a dissertation possibly).

Well the way my mother explains it all away (quite neatly actually) We evolved - God did/planned it that way, Genesis is vastly simplified for uneducated people eg the early christians (that wasn't meant to offend - at the time the vast number of people were un-educated what i mean is that Genesis is a simple rudimentary explanation for simple rudimentary times). So God didn't really create the world in seven days (though he could have with fast-foreward on) or create animals individually but rather engineered the who,e process - he then just explained it in laymsn terms for us simpletons the problem being that we are now smarter and laymans terms no longer suffice.

Make sense? My mothers way of explaining it - pretty neat really. I personally don't believe the whole thing but it does make for a more plausible argument from christians.

the only flaw with this logic is that Genesis isnt Christian but Jewish (as it the whole Old Testament and technically most of the New Testament if you think about it) and it was never intended to be taken literally as its acknowledged as an explaining story (or myth as explained above with the emphasis on faith and belief- two principles usually ignored by those trying to discredit 'religion') by those of the Jewish faith (yes, I know this is sort of agreeing with your simplification theory but then it doesnt as well.....)

 

[snapperhead]

Its not just about the christian god, it also can refer to the islamic and jew god, which is basically the same and to a lesser extent the gods of hinduism

which when thought about are really all the same 'god' as all (major) religions really just have one 'god' (and to a lesser extent, the minor/non-existant religions as well trace their pantheons back to one singular god)....even the so-called polytheistic religions are actually montheistic so I would have to agree with the statement/thread topic does 'god' exist...yes and my evidence is that all religions really have one 'god' who displays the same traits, essentially has the same stories etc etc etc but in cultures quite literally worlds apart and time frames apart...... not everything has to be scientifically proven when anthropology and socio-cultural factors can be used......
IMO sciencewill never proves or disprove anything of this nature as this is beyond the realm of science
my 5 cents worth.....

 

[Monkey Butler]

Physician, first of all, your point about Hitler is bullshit. Second, your little parable is equally bullshit. Anyone can work spin about anything, and it says nothing about the truth.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Snapperhead that's easy to say tho... because all the stories of gods in current religions are so vague and their characteristics are vague and open to anyones interpretation of what they mean. An easy way to answer this is to say that the only 'gods' that manage to stand the test of time in the modern world are ones so ambigious in nature that anyone even people with opposing views on what the god is can believe in them.

 

[lukebennett]

Snapperhead that's easy to say tho... because all the stories of gods in current religions are so vague and their characteristics are vague and open to anyones interpretation of what they mean. An easy way to answer this is to say that the only 'gods' that manage to stand the test of time in the modern world are ones so ambigious in nature that anyone even people with opposing views on what the god is can believe in them.

i think the main reason for the bibles ambiguity is is translation from ancient hebrew to english. i think thats why the bible appears to have such strange holess in it too. its hard to translate ancient versions of languages and to understand their use of language at the time. look at the difference between elizabethan english and our english. and thats only the result of 600 years or somthing. alot of words dont mean the same thing as they once did either. i think this is the key reason for the bibles ambiguity

 

[physician]

Physician, first of all, your point about Hitler is bullshit. Second, your little parable is equally bullshit. Anyone can work spin about anything, and it says nothing about the truth.

r u sure, maybe u dont know much after all.

 

[hipsta_jess]

For me, God doesn't exist. I look at the arguments for evolution, and they make sense, I look at the "proof" of creation, and, personally, I believe its a load of tripe.

 

[physician]

When we examine the Nazi theory, which was given form by Hitler and Alfred Rosenberg, we see in it concepts such as "natural selection," "selective mating," and "the struggle for survival between the races," all repeated dozens of times in Darwin's The Origin of Species. The name of Hitler's book Mein Kampf was inspired by Darwin's principle that life was a constant struggle for survival, and those who emerged victorious survived. In the book, Hitler talked of the struggle between the races, and maintained that "History would culminate in a new millennial empire of unparalleled splendor, based on a new racial hierarchy ordained by nature herself."

In the Nuremberg party rally in 1933, he proclaimed that ''higher race subjects to itself a lower race …a right which we see in nature and which can be regarded as the sole conceivable right."

The historian R. Hickman expresses the influence of Darwinism on Hitler in these words.

[Hitler] was a firm believer and preacher of evolution. Whatever the deeper, profound, complexities of his psychosis, it is certain that [the concept of struggle was important because]… his book, Mein Kampf, clearly set forth a number of evolutionary ideas, particularly those emphasizing struggle, survival of the fittest and the extermination of the weak to produce a better society

When Hitler said, "Take away the Nordic Germans and nothing remains but the dance of apes," he based the thought on the Darwinist ideas that man had evolved from apes, for which reason some humans still possessed "ape "status.

 

[lengstar]

You forget than the humans have transcended evolution in a way and my well be 'God' when it comes to genetic engineering.

 

[physician]

Didnt quite get wat u were trying to say... sorry.. can u please explain?

 

[lengstar]

Have you seen a birth? I thought births were the only miracle these days. Its actually nothing spectacular. I saw a Caesarian Section where they open the womb and take out the baby... nothing spectacular, I wouldn't exactly call it a birth but it is.
The difference between wind creating say the Pyramids of Egypt and a cell, is that a cell is living. Explain to me what a virus is and whether or not its a living organism. Explain the processes of the sperm fertilizing an egg and every step from there on in detail. I know this process, and scientist have found a way to manipulate it. If we were created by God, then if we were to create a new species of plant to wipe out famine, or a new organism to combat viruses, then does that not make us God in a way?

 

[physician]

who has given these scientists the brains that they use to engage in such spectacular processes and actions. have we created a brain?

 

[physician]

A virus is a living organism, and infact when we create a virus, do we create it from nothingness? or do we need something to create it? even if we do create the virus, who created the other organisms that r used to make that virus?

 

[Xayma]

Although exposed to storm, rain, wind, scorching sun, and freezing cold for thousands of years, the bricks do not crack, break up, or get dragged away, but wait there in the same place with the same determination for other bricks to form.

When the number of bricks is adequate, they erect a building by being arranged sideways and on top of each other, having been randomly dragged along by the effects of natural conditions such as winds, storms, or tornadoes.

Ok first of all, do you know anything of the structure and firing of clay?

The heat required for vitrification to be undertaken would require very hot fires, this would require many many many fires.

Otherwise they would just be dehydrated, in which case the water from storms etc would realign the particles inside and then it would slump under it's own weight.

In any case buildings don't go through natural selection, and unlike your example cells can be damaged, they just wouldn't continue on. So random events that are positive continue, those that aren't don't.

In any case it is better then "Somehow out of nothing a God exists, which does not obey any laws of physics etc, they decided to throw people off track by leaving fossils around etc"

A virus is a living organism, and infact when we create a virus, do we create it from nothingness? or do we need something to create it? even if we do create the virus, who created the other organisms that r used to make that virus?

Whether a virus satisfies the definition of living is debateable.

The virus would have come afterwards cells, a possible mutation in a cell that created them.

who has given these scientists the brains that they use to engage in such spectacular processes and actions. have we created a brain?

I don't have the knowledge of evolution to that extent, but I do know that they have reasoning for sight etc so a brain I would most likely predict they have already worked out.

 

[physician]

If we were created by God, then if we were to create a new species of plant to wipe out famine, or a new organism to combat viruses, then does that not make us God in a way?

No because no matter what we do, we can never wipe out or prevent people from dying. Why does everyone have to die? who arent we able to develop some kind of chemical were we are able to live for ever? If scientist could discover soemthing were no one ever dies, then... i will have no argument, but as long as man is born and then dies... the existance of a God will always be on top.