Does God Exist? (2 Viewers)

[§eraphim]

no i understood........no one is here to change anyone...........its just a debate.......and a sharing of religions.......i personally have learnt alot from this thread abt other religions........and why should anyone get angry.......in life u have to accept that others have their own opinion and its probably a better idea to understand this persons opinion rather than ignorantly lash out at them and this thread allows ppl to understand where others are coming from......

nah, all religions are out to convert..its in their nature

 

[lukebennett]

With that line I just meant to respond to the coincidence point and say that life is capable of producing at least a semblance of order and that you should not just assume that divine intervention is the reason for life's supposed order.

I do not know what will happen when I die, but I find it far more likely that I will live on within the realms of memory (that's it) and not the spiritual realms of the occult (something after).



Not the average person, but I could easily picture a social heckler doing such a thing .

thats a really good point. if you really think about it, our minds could be quite simple and it may just be hard for us to get our heads around natural order, but then for some it is hard for us to get our heads around the possibilty of a supernatural realm or the after life. both could be possible when you consider that the universe is so complex. we may only truly know about a tiny fraction of how the universe functions and on how many levels

 

[Pace Setter]

Put religion aside, what do u think will happen when you die? You get buried, and you body breaks down, and thats it? When you die, thats it.

When you closing your eyes and the last seconds of your life pass by, you see it as being you just go to sleep, forever? That is too hard for me to comprehend.

What, instead of going to sleep forever would you consider a better alternative then?

 

[snapperhead]

Christianity hasnt been altered, the differences between the major denominations are minor. The major reason for Protestantism emerging is because at that time corrupt catholic leaders sold passports to heaven, saying that the purchasers are guaranteed access to it. This is where people like Martin Luther came and said you cannot buy your way into heaven, it is through faith. Obviously Catholics no longer sell these passports and also believe that faith is what gives you heaven. The differences between Christian denominations are minor and it is being recently realised which is the reason for various ecumenical ventures, especially in Australia.

actually, indulgences have never officially been taken out of the Roman Catholic Church. They are just not used anymore (ie you cant buy them) as such but they do still form a basis of the reconciliation ceremony (ie the involvement of the pries as opposed to the Protestant line of thinking where forgiveness is between you and God.

The fact is Jesus is not God and it is not believed by any denomination. In the Bible God himself said that he will send down Jesus, so how can it be believed that Jesus is God when God himself said that he is not. The differences in different Bible versions are minor, for example one difference would be that in one Bible the sentence says "And God said to the people Israel" whilst another may say "And He said to the inhabitants of Israel".The message is still the same.

Hate to correct you on this one but Christian thought is along the lines that Jesus in God as its the basis of Trinitarian thought (God the Father, GOD THE SON, God the Holy Spirit). To deny that Jesus is God is to deny God himself (hence the popularity of verse in Mark that you cant get to heaven except through Jesus in Protestant Churches) The Jesus as God thing actually isnt pushed in catholic schools as such and I dont know why as its a basic of Christianity *one of the true reasons for the Reformation if I remember my theology*

If you want my two cents worth, its a personal thing and the so-called atheists (I use this term very loosely) are as valid in their arguments as its their personal thing as are those who believe God exists.
Does God exist? To me, yes! My faith and experience allows me to say that with conviction. There is no *real* proof to say otherwise so that argument isnt valid for me and even say there was/is proof (which can never be given as how do you honestly disprove such a concept? You scientifically can't!) to say God doesnt exist, for me, it wouldnt be valid as it would contradict what I believe (which is also the basis of atheist/agnostic thought ie they choose to not believe .: that is right for them)
It seems this discussion is veering towards what religion is right which isnt the aim of the thread as thats another (subjective) topic.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Why do you use the term 'atheist' loosely?
For me it is not that i am undecided... it isn't that i know god is out there and i'm simply not choosing to believe in him, i've examined the world and found that without a god it all makes sense...

 

[snapperhead]

Why do you use the term 'atheist' loosely?
For me it is not that i am undecided... it isn't that i know god is out there and i'm simply not choosing to believe in him, i've examined the world and found that without a god it all makes sense...

Note the terminology please.....
because a true atheist wouldnt even be discussing this (as its a non issue for them..they know God doesnt exist so why bother arguing it!) plus true atheism is based on real experience and real study of the issue/s and then living your life according to atheist principles...to me, most teenagers (and you may be in the group outside of this train of thought) should describe themselves as apathetic not atheist as most are either rebelling against their parents ideals/cultures (eg my parents make me go to church and I dont want to....a common reason given by teenage 'atheists' under 15 according to the Church life survey of 2001/1) or going with popular societal/cultural ideals on the importance of religion......maybe 'secularist' should be used instead of atheist as its probably a closer description...or maybe 'humanist' but not atheist as an true atheist will deny the existence of God even if irrefutable proof is presented...this is why I laugh when people try to use science as their logic but doesnt scientific theory decree that evidence must be tested and then used for a hypothesis to be correct .: if provable proof is given isnt a scientific person is obligated to test and accept as the proof is in the pudding!!???

Its just semantics really....true atheism exisits outside of the realm of thought and experience of most people as its not worth pursuing properly to be able to call yourself a true atheist...you dont believe, I can accept that but I may have troubles/issues with your reasoning/logic *if* it is regurgitated rhetoric......

again, my 2 cents worth based on many years of study and observation....

 

[mr EaZy]

i agree, science is not in the business of advocating god's existence or otherwise.
Thnx for that insight Snapperhead!

 

[asscookie]

A lot of atheists are just shit stirrers. They're generally against people blindly following any religion, and like to make fun of the ones who do. It's stupid, really, because a lot of newbie-atheists just as blindly follow the writings of other shit-stirring atheists. At least it encourages religious types to examine their own religion and learn more about it.

Anyone can be an atheist. Many atheists in the western world are secular humanists, but not all secular humanists are true atheists.

 

[acmilan]

Yes very inspiring, and i must admit that I was brought up in the Catholic train of thought but i still do realise the trinity and the whole God the Son thing but what I was aiming in saying that Jesus was not God is a little hard to explain, the simplest way to put it is that God did not physically come down to Earth and assume the human form of Jesus. Again its really hard to explain.

Edit: this was directed to snapperhead not asscookie

 

[snapperhead]

Yes very inspiring, and i must admit that I was brought up in the Catholic train of thought but i still do realise the trinity and the whole God the Son thing but what I was aiming in saying that Jesus was not God is a little hard to explain, the simplest way to put it is that God did not physically come down to Earth and assume the human form of Jesus. Again its really hard to explain.

Edit: this was directed to snapperhead not asscookie

I guessed that was what you were trying to say but the way you said it sorta implied otherwise...which would have left you open to attack from a B.B.F!!

Gotta look out for my fellow SOR mod!!

 

[Chand]

Does God Exist?

Something related if anyone's interested.

 

[acmilan]

If it wasnt on the day that it is i might have gone

 

[snapperhead]

Does God Exist?

Something related if anyone's interested.

would be even more interesting if it wasnt just representatives of the Islamic faith talking.........'authorities' from other religions would make for an even more interesting discussion..... still would be good though

 

[Chand]

That would probably take a while to get everyone discussing their own stuff....it'd be good to see how sismilar and different some arguments would be though.

 

[asimz]

Does God Exist?

Yes.

Whether you believe the big bang THEORY or 7 day creation, at the very origin of the universe, something initiated or CREATED the beginning. That takes a creator, an abstract entity that isn't bound by the laws in which he/she/it set in place.



I'd say that creator is the same being that Newton and Einstein believed in.

 

[flyin']

I have a computer, and a monitor, and I'm on BoredofStudies atm. I suspect someone/s created the computer, and a monitor, and BoredofStudies. A computer, a monitor, BoredofStudies is complicated. So is the nature, and man-made things.

I'd like to see something complicated come out of nothing (and I mean absolutely nothing). I'm not implying anything - merely, that given a blank piece of paper, a paragraph of coherent writing doesn't just appear out of nowhere.

Does this imply God? Maybe, maybe not. (This is because it depends on your definition of God - if God implies Creator, and there is a Creator then there is God. Otherwise there maybe a Creator without God.) Does it imply some creator, most certainly.

Of course, people who want to argue that this post wasn't created, but was done by a Big Bang can argue all they like - it's a free world.

/ end of say.

 

[snapperhead]

I have a computer, and a monitor, and I'm on BoredofStudies atm. I suspect someone/s created the computer, and a monitor, and BoredofStudies. A computer, a monitor, BoredofStudies is complicated. So is the nature, and man-made things.

I'd like to see something complicated come out of nothing (and I mean absolutely nothing). I'm not implying anything - merely, that given a blank piece of paper, a paragraph of coherent writing doesn't just appear out of nowhere.

Does this imply God? Maybe, maybe not. (This is because it depends on your definition of God - if God implies Creator, and there is a Creator then there is God. Otherwise there maybe a Creator without God.) Does it imply some creator, most certainly.

Of course, people who want to argue that this post wasn't created, but was done by a Big Bang can argue all they like - it's a free world.

/ end of say.

lol...but are you sure??


My favourite way of "showing God" (I know thats worded wrong but I cant think of a better, non-fundie/"believe or die" type analogy) is to ask someone to draw the sum of all human 'knowledge' (what is known) in the form of a circle on a pice of paper. You then get then to place a dot/mark in proportion to the size of their cirlce to represent what their 'knowledge'....always gets them thinking when they see the vast difference in size of what is known and more importantly, what is unknown....

 

[acmilan]

Arghh now you got me thinking snapperhead!

But seriously interesting technique.

 

[lengstar]

i believe their is a creator, i call him god, but he may or may not be the same god as the christian god, as i am still skeptical about christianity.

 

[KeypadSDM]

Man, I rate this argument:

"Since the universe exists there must be a creator. Hence God exists."

Alas they fail to see the counterargument:

"Since God exists, he must have a creator."

Then continue the argument into a proof by contradiction, hence no creator, everything happened spontaneously out of nothing.

Like this is not cool. WTF?