Does God Exist? (2 Viewers)

[dark_angel]

if i am a non-muslim, am i allowed to go to ur holy place?

 

[joujou_84]

http://www.sikhs.org/relig_qm.htm

ur quoting islam from a sikhs webiste..........................try again mr

 

[acmilan]

When people were quoting i thought they were actually taking them from an actual book and not from websites. A rule that ive always followed: never trust websites on any religious matter, you never know who made the site

 

[joujou_84]

Non-Sikhs are allowed to visit and enter the most sacred shrine of the religion, The Golden Temple.

"Believers, know that the idolaters are unclean. Let them not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year is ended" (9:26, Quran)

"Blessed is the place, and blessed are those who dwell there, where God's Name is meditated upon. The sermons and songs of God's praises are sung there and there is nothing but peace, poise and tranquillity." (Guru Arjan Dev, Raga Bilaval, pg. 816)

"If the Lord Allah lives only in the mosque, then to whom does the rest of the world belong? …The God of the Hindus lives in the southern lands, and the God of the Muslims lives in the west. So search in your heart - look deep into your heart of hearts; this is the home and the place where God lives." (Bhagat Kabir, pg. 1349)

once again uve quoted wrong. that is not in the qoran.........do me a favour......go buy a qoran plzzzzzzz.....until the stop giving me bullshit quotes. btw ur sikh site is full of crap abt islam..........they might need someoen to infact give them the correct verses......theyre making shit up.

 

[joujou_84]

So would you be willing to look through the SOR forum every now and again to answer any islam question that may arise? It probably wont be as big an issue until probably mid next year as islam is usually only referred to during the cross religion study which is the last option. If you agree i will make it aware to the public that they should direct questions to you

sure.........

 

[dark_angel]

once again uve quoted wrong. that is not in the qoran.........do me a favour......go buy a qoran plzzzzzzz.....until the stop giving me bullshit quotes. btw ur sikh site is full of crap abt islam..........they might need someoen to infact give them the correct verses......theyre making shit up.

ok do u know any websites which are english translated that u know of are correct?

 

[joujou_84]

if i am a non-muslim, am i allowed to go to ur holy place?

of course...............OMG i was an atheist when i went to mosques.........of course ur allowed in. actually they welcome u quite well.

 

[dark_angel]

these quotes are not bullshit

Attitude towards women. Sikh women are allowed to lead congregations of men at the temple or administer all religious ceremonies involving either men or women.

"Man have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because Allah has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them." (4:34, Quran)

"We are born of woman, we are conceived in the womb of woman, we are engaged and married to woman. We make friendship with woman and the lineage continued because of woman. When one woman dies, we take another one, we are bound with the world through woman. Why should we talk ill of her, who gives birth to kings? The woman is born from woman; there is none without her. Only the One True Lord is without woman" (Guru Nanak Dev, Var Asa, pg. 473)


ok the top quote is from a sikh website, and this one:

[4.34] Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

is from this arabic site: http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=DIV0&byte=114839

 

[joujou_84]

ok do u know any websites which are english translated that u know of are correct?

i dont bother with websites...............the most accurate place to find the right quotes is the koran itself. people think that changing one word here or one word there on the net is fine.............well often it changes the whole meaning of the verse..........so no i stick to the book..........btw sorry for calling u sad........im actually more pissed off at these ppl who want to abuse other religions by incorrectly quoting thier holy books. ive seen it on christain website and greek orthodox websites and now urs.

 

[dark_angel]

of course...............OMG i was an atheist when i went to mosques.........of course ur allowed in. actually they welcome u quite well.

ok thats awesome

so you were an atheist and converted to islam?

 

[joujou_84]

these quotes are not bullshit

Attitude towards women. Sikh women are allowed to lead congregations of men at the temple or administer all religious ceremonies involving either men or women.

"Man have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because Allah has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them." (4:34, Quran)

"We are born of woman, we are conceived in the womb of woman, we are engaged and married to woman. We make friendship with woman and the lineage continued because of woman. When one woman dies, we take another one, we are bound with the world through woman. Why should we talk ill of her, who gives birth to kings? The woman is born from woman; there is none without her. Only the One True Lord is without woman" (Guru Nanak Dev, Var Asa, pg. 473)


ok the top quote is from a sikh website, and this one:

[4.34] Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

is from this arabic site: http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=DIV0&byte=114839

noooooooo they are bullshit.........it dosent say that in the koran.....im holding the koran in my hand now at the chapter and verse number u are refering to and it does not say this.....dont make me call u sad again........

Edit: how can two verses both be on 4:34...............use ur brain in future......the second one is correct and ive explained wat it says before the line and after that line and i wont do it again.

 

[joujou_84]

ok thats awesome

so you were an atheist and converted to islam?

yes..........i think everyone knows that except u.............btw do u now see that the sikh webiste is lying?

 

[joujou_84]

[4.34] Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

is from this arabic site: http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=DIV0&byte=114839

okkkkkkkkk, just for u ill explain it again. men excel in the area of working and providing for women..............women excel in the area of having children and running the household..............men excel in some areas......women excel in others.....women can work however it is not obligatory for them to do so.......however it is obligatory for men to provide......therefore they excel in the area of providing...........the second half has something to do wth aduletry......women cheating and running off with other men (desertion).........this is not allowed islam.......if they dont repent and they continue to disgrace themselves then yeh they get a beating..........its the same as stoning.........if a women cheats on her husband and does not regret it or repent then she is stoned........btw this is really old fashioned and dosent happen anymore except in backward countries.

 

[dark_angel]

yes..........i think everyone knows that except u.............btw do u now see that the sikh webiste is lying?

what how the hell is it lying, these quotes are only meant to be used comparisons to other faiths. They are not exact quotes, but a quote is meant for a specific purpose, and the quotes contain that information

let me say this again.

"Believers, know that the idolaters are unclean. Let them not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year is ended" (9:26, Quran)

this is from the sikh website.

this is form the islamic website, which has the whole quran translated:

[9.28] O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year; and if you fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please; surely Allah is Knowing Wise.

I think they might have got the numbers wrong, in this quote though.


It is not meant to be a direct comparison, how can sikhs translate the quran exactly, when they havent even learnt the language? It is just meant to prove the point, and compare it to sikhism.

This is what it says on the sikhism website (it compares sikhism, its similarities and differences to various religions)

Non-Sikhs are allowed to visit and enter the most sacred shrine of the religion, The Golden Temple.

"Believers, know that the idolaters are unclean. Let them not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year is ended" (9:26, Quran)

what sikh gurus said about this issue:

"Blessed is the place, and blessed are those who dwell there, where God's Name is meditated upon. The sermons and songs of God's praises are sung there and there is nothing but peace, poise and tranquillity." (Guru Arjan Dev, Raga Bilaval, pg. 816)

"If the Lord Allah lives only in the mosque, then to whom does the rest of the world belong? …The God of the Hindus lives in the southern lands, and the God of the Muslims lives in the west. So search in your heart - look deep into your heart of hearts; this is the home and the place where God lives." (Bhagat Kabir, pg. 1349)

 

[dark_angel]

okkkkkkkkk, just for u ill explain it again. men excel in the area of working and providing for women..............women excel in the area of having children and running the household..............men excel in some areas......women excel in others.....women can work however it is not obligatory for them to do so.......however it is obligatory for men to provide......therefore they excel in the area of providing...........the second half has something to do wth aduletry......women cheating and running off with other men (desertion).........this is not allowed islam.......if they dont repent and they continue to disgrace themselves then yeh they get a beating..........its the same as stoning.........if a women cheats on her husband and does not regret it or repent then she is stoned........btw this is really old fashioned and dosent happen anymore except in backward countries.

ok this is where all the shit goes wrong, when people try to make their own interpretation of this..this is how wars start.


From what I can deduce from what you have said....it clearly states that
and i quote "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others"

what the sikh website is trying to say, is that sikhism does not value women over men, or men over women, and does not regard women as less than men.

"We are born of woman, we are conceived in the womb of woman, we are engaged and married to woman. We make friendship with woman and the lineage continued because of woman. When one woman dies, we take another one, we are bound with the world through woman. Why should we talk ill of her, who gives birth to kings? The woman is born from woman; there is none without her. Only the One True Lord is without woman" (Guru Nanak Dev, Var Asa, pg. 473)

which i think is absolutely spot on.

" Why should we talk ill of her, who gives birth to kings? "

 

[joujou_84]

this is form the islamic website, which has the whole quran translated:

[9.28] O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year; and if you fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please; surely Allah is Knowing Wise.

well they should quote properly from the koran written in english and yeh maybe ur numbers are wrong...........anyway do u know when the koran was written.................like almos 2000yrs ago when the idol worshipers first saw islam and used to destroy mosques and burn the koran........(the year referring to the yr the koran was brought down).........these r the idol worshippers which cant come near sacred mosques..........however today all are welcome........idol worshippers are what is called in islam najis (unclean)........this is coz they take idols for god and that is like one of the worse sins u can commit......

 

[joujou_84]

ok this is where all the shit goes wrong, when people try to make their own interpretation of this..this is how wars start.


From what I can deduce from what you have said....it clearly states that
and i quote "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others"

what the sikh website is trying to say, is that sikhism does not value women over men, or men over women, and does not regard women as less than men.

"We are born of woman, we are conceived in the womb of woman, we are engaged and married to woman. We make friendship with woman and the lineage continued because of woman. When one woman dies, we take another one, we are bound with the world through woman. Why should we talk ill of her, who gives birth to kings? The woman is born from woman; there is none without her. Only the One True Lord is without woman" (Guru Nanak Dev, Var Asa, pg. 473)

which i think is absolutely spot on.

" Why should we talk ill of her, who gives birth to kings? "

im not interpreting it from my head...........these are the interpretations of the prophet mohammad............anyway have u bothered reading the verses that highlight the importance of women in islam or do u just look at the importance of men...........each gender has their role.........read the koran then comment........dont take lines from it and tell me women are not valued in islam

 

[dark_angel]

well they should quote properly from the koran written in english and yeh maybe ur numbers are wrong...........anyway do u know when the koran was written.................like almos 2000yrs ago when the idol worshipers first saw islam and used to destroy mosques and burn the koran........(the year referring to the yr the koran was brought down).........these r the idol worshippers which cant come near sacred mosques..........however today all are welcome........idol worshippers are what is called in islam najis (unclean)........this is coz they take idols for god and that is like one of the worse sins u can commit......

yes this is similar in sikhism:

Rejection of all forms of blind rituals such as fasting, religious vegetarianism, pilgrimages, superstions, yoga, as well as any form of idol worship.


well we dont fast, thats a difference

 

[dark_angel]

im not interpreting it from my head...........these are the interpretations of the prophet mohammad............anyway have u bothered reading the verses that highlight the importance of women in islam or do u just look at the importance of men...........each gender has their role.........read the koran then comment........dont take lines from it and tell me women are not valued in islam

ok show me where, cos i have no idea what islam is about

tell me from the website where it says the relationship between humanity and roles

and i'm not talking about u, i'm talking about terrorist ppl

heres the website that i got the quotes from:

http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html

 

[dark_angel]

sorry , i'm going to a vietmanese resteraunt to eat some beef noodle soup

*drools*

i will be back soon


cya