Does My Mark/rank At School Affect My Hsc Marks- Last Clarifications (1 Viewer)

[Mossad]

First of all i would like to thank a bunch of very wise individuals who help so many students in maximising their achievements, getting a sense of purpose in their studies and simply being there when it matters, being informative and answering significant questions...

I have finally understood how the calculation of my HSC mark works. Call me slow, that maybe, but i'm still enlightened, and i'm sure that it's gonna make a huge differenence in the end...
However, i have a few last questions to our panel:

1) Despite the notion that your assessment mark doesn't effect your HSC mark (cept for purposes of determining the rank), if there is a large difference between your assessment mark and HSC exam does that effect your HSC mark (i.e. do 80 in assessment mark and 100 in hsc exam give you more than 90 and less than 90 if its the other way around, because the hsc exam naturally has more importance than the assessment mark).

2) Does and if so, how will a large difference between the first and second student in a certain subject reward the first....please explain how.

4) When you think aobut the notion that dictates that the person ranked first gets the highest exam mark, can someone who didn't come first in his internal mark come first in the HSC mark?


Thanks for advance peoplz

 

[Lazarus]

I think I speak for all of the 'wise individuals' when I say we appreciate the compliments.

Originally posted by Mossad
1) do 80 in assessment mark and 100 in hsc exam give you more than 90 and less than 90 if its the other way around, because the hsc exam naturally has more importance than the assessment mark

No. The HSC exam doesn't have any 'extra' importance, except for the fact that the overall marks of a class as a whole play a role in determining the moderated assessment marks of that class. The HSC mark is always the average of the exam mark and the moderated assessment mark. On your BOS record of achievement, it will be rounded to the nearest integer, yet it in the calculations it is kept to one decimal place.

Originally posted by Mossad
2) Does and if so, how will a large difference between the first and second student in a certain subject reward the first....please explain how.

In practice, the first student isn't really rewarded. Theoretically, you could argue that, by increasing the gap between the students ranked second and first, you lower the moderated assessment mark received by the student ranked second. This might result in them receiving a lower scaled aggregate than the student ranked first, effectively 'pushing them down' so that the student ranked first receives a slightly higher UAI. However, that's really an extreme case - it wouldn't normally happen, and the bonus would be at most 0.05. There's not really any noticeable reward.

Originally posted by Mossad
3) Does, and if so, to what extent will effect one's HSC mark and UAI

I think you left out part of the question here...

Originally posted by Mossad
4) When you think aobut the notion that dictates that the person ranked first gets the highest exam mark, can someone who didn't come first in his internal mark come first in the HSC mark?

Yes - it is usually only possible for students who are close to the top student, though. The student ranked first (assessment-wise) would need to receive a low exam mark, thus counter-balancing their (inevitably) high moderated assessment mark, and resulting in a lower HSC mark. The other student would need to be fairly close to the first student in terms of assessments so that their moderated assessment mark is sufficiently high to begin with, and then on top of this they would need attain an exam mark high enough to cause the average of the two to be higher than that of the first student.

Remember that the student ranked first only receives the highest exam mark as their moderated assessment mark - their personal exam mark always remains unaffected.

 

[Mossad]

o.k. first of all thanks for the answer lazarus and thanks again for all the good work and dedication...gw mate


big fat edit: forget about question 3....i have no clue what i wanted to ask...

Replace that with this:
If someone gets 100% in all of his exams and is ranked first in all his subjecs and he is the only one to achieve that in NSW will he get a UAI of 100, and to what extent is that dependent on his subjects & school (i.e. can one go to a shitty school and end up topping the state). Can someone who achieved all that but didn't come first in all of his subjects achieve that.

thank you

 

[Lazarus]

Originally posted by Mossad
If someone gets 100% in all of his exams and is ranked first in all his subjecs and he is the only one to achieve that in NSW will he get a UAI of 100, and to what extent is that dependent on his subjects & school (i.e. can one go to a shitty school and end up topping the state). Can someone who achieved all that but didn't come first in all of his subjects achieve that.

Most likely, yes.

You said that this student was ranked first in all of his assessments - he is therefore completely unaffected by the school he attends. Whether or not he receives a UAI of 100 will depend entirely on the courses he took and how they were scaled in that year.

In the past, the top scaled mark has always been up near 50 (on a 1-unit basis); the only exceptions to this have been the very bottom courses with the lowest scaled means. Assuming that his courses weren't, for example, Arabic Beginners, Construction and similarly scaled courses, he'd be (essentially) guaranteed a UAI of 100.

Anyone who attains 100% for their HSC mark in a course is certain to receive a first-in-state award (although they may be equal-first with other students). Note that, for this to occur, the student must achieve an HSC mark of 100%, and cannot simply score 100% in the HSC exam.

 

[Minai]

I've been wondering how the award the first-in-state awards - because I talked to kini mini and he said for 3U maths, a guy at his school got Exam:100, Assess:100 and HSC mark:100, but not become top of state - do they look at RAW exam marks when determining this?

 

[Lazarus]

Originally posted by MinAi
I've been wondering how the award the first-in-state awards - because I talked to kini mini and he said for 3U maths, a guy at his school got Exam:100, Assess:100 and HSC mark:100, but not become top of state - do they look at RAW exam marks when determining this?

The marks reported on the BOS record of achievement are rounded to the nearest integer - the actual marks are kept to one decimal place, and the first-in-state awards are given based on those marks. His friend missed out by (at most) 0.5!

 

[flyin']

Originally posted by MinAi
I've been wondering how the award the first-in-state awards - because I talked to kini mini and he said for 3U maths, a guy at his school got Exam:100, Assess:100 and HSC mark:100, but not become top of state - do they look at RAW exam marks when determining this?

I know that guy ... and I think he just got rorted!

 

[Minai]

0.5...that's a damn small margin to miss out by!

flyin - yeah thats exactly wat kini mini said

 

[Lazarus]

Originally posted by natstar
-raw marks- pardon my ignorance but what are marks? They sound like something u wana throw in the oven and eat...

LOL! Hrmm... I've not heard that one before.

I'd recommend reading the UAISeeker 2003 manual for an explanation of the terms themselves.

 

[Mossad]

Note that, for this to occur, the student must achieve an HSC mark of 100%, and cannot simply score 100% in the HSC exam.

i.e. get 100 in his exam and be ranked first correct?

 

[Butterfly_Wings]

I think this whole thread (and all those similar too it...) just go to show how hopeless schools are at explaining the whole sytem of HSC marking to the students! I know I didn't understand until AFTER i got my HSC marks back, (and a few parts of my understanding a probably still a bit sketchy...), and obviously a lot of current year 12s don't understand it either.
How can schools expect their students to perform well when they aren't even sure how their marks are being used? Booo!:mad1:

 

[flyin']

Originally posted by Butterfly_Wings
I think this whole thread (and all those similar too it...) just go to show how hopeless schools are at explaining the whole sytem of HSC marking to the students!

Too true!

How the system works shouldn't affect that fact that you should give it as much as you could ... and hope for the best!

 

[Butterfly_Wings]

Originally posted by flyin'


How the system works shouldn't affect that fact that you should give it as much as you could ... and hope for the best!

Well yes, in theory, but I think it is unfair if people don't know how it works, and as a result, don't try as hard...I remember having to tell this girl in my class that our assessment marks counted for 1/2 our HSC marks somewhere around the time of the fucking trials, and she just went white! She had been working OK, and handing things in and stuff, but would've been trying harder had she have known! And to not know by that stage...thats crazy!
And if people don't know how marks are used, they may spend too long stressing out in subjects that have tough markers-not realising that their assessment marks will most likely get scaled up-and taking time away from subjects they are getting fairly good marks in, but with an easy marker-not realising that the marks will likely get scaled down, and that is therefore important to work just as hard.
It's not fair on anyone!

 

[Mossad]

I absolutely agree with Butterfly Wingson this one....access to the system as in knowledge of how things work cannot harm anyone it can only do good...

And teachers are definately not spending enough (sometimes any) time explaining to students how their UAI will be calculated...i'm talking aobut the generic process not to the smallest details....if teachers would spend half the time they lecture to students that they have to put in the effort and that year 12 isn't like year 11 and blah blah in conveying to people how the actual thing works then i think that students will have a clearer picture of what they have to do and how they're gonna do it...

I wish things were different in this area!!

 

[kini mini]

Originally posted by flyin'

I know that guy ... and I think he just got rorted!

Yeah I have my suspicions about the BOS too.

Mossad - yes

Originally posted by Butterfly_Wings

I think this whole thread (and all those similar too it...) just go to show how hopeless schools are at explaining the whole sytem of HSC marking to the students! I know I didn't understand until AFTER i got my HSC marks back, (and a few parts of my understanding a probably still a bit sketchy...), and obviously a lot of current year 12s don't understand it either.

I've been getting the impression that my school is one of the few that took the time to explain it to us. They held seminars for us and our parents, excellent powerpoint slides used to illustrate the process. I think it depends on how pushy parents and students are - Grammar guys are famous for their mark-grubbing antics, and Grammar parents expect good service!

 

[Mossad]

well i wish that was the situation in my school....it's an average goverment school...

i'm afraid that in my case it doesn't matter at all how willing the students and/or parents are to know how things are done, fact is that most teachers probably aren't entirely familiar with the whole process (not as much as our distinguished panel, that i guarantee you!).
I'm a competition/marks/achievements self admitted addict, i know that, and no matter how much i tried to gain knowledge within my school i couldn't get any in depth information, the only bits of pieces i got was from my business studies teacher who keeps telling us that rank is very important, but that's about it.

You would not believe how many opinions and myths about the HSC and UAI are out there....i'm so greatful i discovered this web site!!!

 

[Minai]

Originally posted by Mossad
You would not believe how many opinions and myths about the HSC and UAI are out there....i'm so greatful i discovered this web site!!!

I ended up explaining this process to half my grade because everyone was so misled. My economics teacher told me everything in yr11 and came here in yr12 and Laz was preaching the same...but yeah, seriously, threads like this wouldnt exist if the gov't would take time to explain this process to the students, especially from about yr10, instead of mailing a letter at the END of the yr (of yr12) about it.

 

[flyin']

Originally posted by Minai
...My economics teacher told me everything in yr11 and came here in yr12 and Laz was preaching the same...but yeah, seriously, threads like this wouldnt exist if the gov't would take time to explain this process to the students, especially from about yr10, instead of mailing a letter at the END of the yr (of yr12) about it.

LOL! I still think even if they spent the time and money, they wouldn't do it properly and people would still be lefted baffled! Maybe we could get paid for this!