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Einstein and plank's different view? (1 Viewer)

garry

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Can anyone tell me something about the point:
Process information to discuss Einstein and Plank's different views about whether science research is removed from social and political forces.

All i know is Einstein think it should while Plank think it shouldn't. Anyone know more detail about this?
 

Jase

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Okay im going to type up the definitive guide to Scientific Research and Society:

Social and political forces impact upon science in the following ways:
Governments demand the right to know what their research grants will be spent on.
Funding is usually provided by government of military bodies.
University funding has declined such that it has turned to industrial funding.

In the 1900's there were two schools of thought. Ernst Mach believed that scientific research should be set by human needs and put at the disposal of society, industry and state. They (mostly the chemists) were pro-war for Germany in WW1 and 2.
Max Planck however supported the growing trend towards indepedent university research. He sought for a 'pure' science removed from political affairs. Planck feared the consequences of science being an instrument to those in power.

When WWI broke out, Planck was very supportive of German efforts and signed the Manifesto of the '93 (93 intellectuals signed to support germany's war). Whereas, Einstein showed his pacifist views and signed with three others, the anti-war counter-manifesto.
Planck and Einstein were involved scientifically with each other for years, and although Einstein was a great humanitarian, he also endorsed Planck's view of the basic aim of science. Einstein however could not ignore the issues of social and cultural impacts in science.

In WW2, after Germany's humiliating defeat, Planck was once again for the war, due to his patriotism. The nazi's were anti-semetic, and denounced all non-german science and art, including Einstein's work as "Jewish-Communist physics". In 1933 Planck met Hitler and tried to convince him that the forced Jewish emigration was bad for Germany's scientific progress. During this time, Einstein left the country and never returned. Planck kept his presidential position at the Kaiser Wilhelm institute but resigned in 1937 in protest.

Plank's views on pure science was dominant in most of the 20th century until recent years where it has become much more involved with humanitarian and socio-political issues. This is why the HSC syllabus is pumping us with society and applications of physics continuously.

Well there you go, so before you go on about how much Planck and Einstein hated each other just to reinforce the "differing views", you should hear the full story and write your own answer.
 

garry

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thank you jase, that's a lot of help. But from i remember my teacher told me that Planck and Einstein were friends and they don't hate each other just that they have different views. should i mention a little of Manhattan project as well? Like Einstein sent a warning letter to the US president?
 

andysoul

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thanks man, i was reading about that y'day, and some sources seem to say that einstein and planck agreed. but that clarifies it alot. cheers
 

JayWalker

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Lol yeah its pretty simple,
Just about different views, science for all or science for country - bad science leads to war weapons.. lol.. yeah thats about it
 

kheir

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ok now im reaaly confused

plank wanted science to be withdrawn from politics so he signs a manifesto o
f 93 and resigned his positon as presidnet as khe.., how is that being withdrawn
is der a parralx or sum thin i cnt c
 

mr EaZy

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chem context says that he wanted science to be independant as opposed to mach

howver he believed he could workj within the system if he didnt get his way. this is in contast to einstein who loves to speak out against his country (he wasnt german). So einstein loved to raise issues publicly against the wishes of government,

"they both shared tje same basic aim od sci"
 

mojako

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umm Jase, I think it's a good idea to get rid of the sentence "Planck feared the consequences of science being an instrument to those in power." just for the sake of not contradicting because Planck was in fact used by the government.

anyway from what ive been reading,
Planck believed in pure scientific research removed from social and political forces. he didnt really care how the results would be used for, whether it be for good or evil. he believed research should continue nevertheless to advance science. but he was also patriotic and loved his country (german) so doing research to help germany win the war was all good.
einstein in contrast believed that we must consider the social and humanitarian aspect of how the results from research would be used by political parties such as the governments. ppl at the time knew it would be used for war and nuclear weapon which would kill thousands of lives, so einstein decided not to research into those areas.
 
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mojako

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garry said:
thank you jase, that's a lot of help. But from i remember my teacher told me that Planck and Einstein were friends and they don't hate each other just that they have different views. should i mention a little of Manhattan project as well? Like Einstein sent a warning letter to the US president?
i wouldnt mention manhattan
also einstein's letter supported the production of atomic bombs.. so its contradictory to his pacifist and socialist views. but he believed its for the better of society becoz if america didnt make bombs german would become the world's mosy powerful country
 

Jase

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Well i like everyone in history to be kind humanitarians so i just want to outline how cool Planck is, and he wasn't some cold stereotypic Nazi scientist.

He defended the Jewish community and secretly met Hitler a few times to persuade him, whereas Einstein chose more public and international approaches...
Except Planck was still 100% German and loved his country... although he regretted signing the manifesto, he still loved his country.
 

garry

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mojako said:
i wouldnt mention manhattan
also einstein's letter supported the production of atomic bombs.. so its contradictory to his pacifist and socialist views. but he believed its for the better of society becoz if america didnt make bombs german would become the world's mosy powerful country
But he didn't really support the production of atomic bomb, it was just a warning letter to let the US president know that the German might be making a atomic bomb.
 

superbird

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do we seriously need to know this in alot of detail? like basically all u really need to know is that einstein was a pacifist and planck remained in germany
 

tennille

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So what's the deal with this? Was it einstein or planck who believed that scientific research was removed from social or political forces? My friends tell me one thing, but the threads on BOS say another. Sorry, I find this dot point very confusing,
 

tennille

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all i know is that planck was a nationalist whilst einstein was a pacifist. What does the whole dot point mean anyway?
 

garry

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This point is really stupid. It's more history than physic. i just hope it dosen't come out or if it does, i hope it won't be one of those 5-7 mark questions.
 

Xayma

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Here are the things you should know:

Planck: Staunch Nationalist, supported Germanys war cause
Einstein: World citizen, didn't owe allegiance to one country, very strong pacifist.

Planck: Believed that scientific research should be undertaken for science with no need to consider how it would be used.
Einstein: Believed that scientific reasearch should be undertaken together with a thought of how it will affect people.

You need to be able to say how this affected the time. Such as Einstein being fearful of german atomic research warnign the President which lead to the Manhattan Project.
 

ashtor

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whats the manhattan project??

Max Planck however supported the growing trend towards indepedent university research. He sought for a 'pure' science removed from political affairs. Planck feared the consequences of science being an instrument to those in power.
Jase lost me...coz if Planck was such a nationalist doesnt that mean he DOESNT want scientific research to be exempt from social and political forces, i.e., he'd do anything to help his country so he doesnt care whats done with the reserach unlike Einstein who thought it should be pursued with a responsibility on how it is used thus it should be removed from political forces in case they use it to do some bad shit like his work on energy and that being used to make bombs?????
 
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