Eligibility for doing ESL (1 Viewer)

[airie]

Can anyone tell me who are eligible to do ESL for the HSC? I'm quite baffled at the moment See, I came here to Australia three and a half years ago, and by the time I do my HSC I would have come for more than five years, so I thought that I would not be able to do ESL. But recently I found that one of my friends is doing ESL, and she came here a couple of months earlier than me. I've even heard of a tale that a girl who came here in Year 4 was still eligible to do ESL. o.0 Is this likely to be true? I mean, wouldn't that be unfair to everyone else?

Also, which English course should I do in Year 12? ESL (if I am eligible), English Std, or English Adv? I'm now yet to start Year 11, when I'd be doing English Adv (my school makes everyone in Year 11 do Eng Adv but you may choose to do Std or ESL in Year 12), but I'm not sure of my choice in Year 12. I know, I still have a year, but I just would like to be more informed now Does ESL scale really badly? Is it difficult to score a Band 6 in ESL (or does it even have a Band 6? )? I've heard that it is pretty hard to get Band 6 for English Std (but that may be due to the difference in the candidates anyway), but would I be better off doing ESL, English Std or English Adv?

This is how I did at school for English last year (Year 10):
- For the first three assessment tasks in the year, my marks were all in the range 65-69%
- Then for the wide-reading task, I got 16 out of 20;
- For the three assessment tasks in the second semester, my marks were all in the range 85-89% (a huge jump, I was surprised )
- And for the English yearly, my mark was 79%;
- In the end, I got 80-84% as my mark range for English for my yearly report, an 89 in the English SC, and a 'B - High' as the SC grade from my school.

... So who are eligible to do ESL for the HSC? Would it be better for me to do ESL, Eng Std, or Eng Adv? Advice is greatly appreciated

 

[pLuvia]

11.2 Course Entry Requirements
The English (ESL) course may be accessed by any student who has been educated overseas or in an Australian educational institution using English as the language of instruction for five years or less prior to the beginning of the Preliminary year of study.

As for yourself, if you do badly in Preliminary English the teachers sometimes force you to drop to standard english. But as for the bands, in standard it's almost impossible to get band 6, and very hard to band 5, probably the same situation for ESL.
English year 10 isn't an indication of how well you will do in year 11, keep that in mind.

 

[airie]

As for yourself, if you do badly in Preliminary English the teachers sometimes force you to drop to standard english. But as for the bands, in standard it's almost impossible to get band 6, and very hard to band 5, probably the same situation for ESL.
English year 10 isn't an indication of how well you will do in year 11, keep that in mind.

... Hmmm. So that means I would be able to do ESL if I want to. OK at least that's another option open What would be the pros and cons of doing ESL anyway?

Yeah I know that my Year 10 English marks won't be indicative of my senior school performance, I put my Year 10 results here just to show my weird marks pattern...which was the cause of my confusion as of which of ESL, Eng Std or Eng Adv I should do

By the way...what would be your judgement as 'doing badly' in Prelim English?

 

[VQ]

Well, that 5yrs thing posted by pluvia is the official one...but sometimes rules r bent...like my senior who did Chinese beginner while the whole life he has spoken Chinese and learnt in Singapore...

Does ESL scale really badly? Is it difficult to score a Band 6 in ESL (or does it even have a Band 6? )?

I dunno whether it scales badly, but according to a list I got, it does...
It does have band 6, in fact several students at my school get band 6. But yeah, even 93 ranked 4 to 5 among 3000s students who did ESL in 2005.

How about consulting to yr. teacher and seeing past papers and think which suits u best...

 

[hopeles5ly]

... Hmmm. So that means I would be able to do ESL if I want to. OK at least that's another option open What would be the pros and cons of doing ESL anyway?

Yeah I know that my Year 10 English marks won't be indicative of my senior school performance, I put my Year 10 results here just to show my weird marks pattern...which was the cause of my confusion as of which of ESL, Eng Std or Eng Adv I should do

By the way...what would be your judgement as 'doing badly' in Prelim English?

why would you want to do ESL hehe . IMO i find the content in it really boring and im sure you would find more interest in standard or even advance. and my judgement of "doing badly" in prelim english is not meeting the average mark. and no its possible to score a band 6 in esl. it's hard in standard because the standard people are competiting with advance for the first paper and also because that most of the candidates english skills are not as good as those that are doing advance.

Well, that 5yrs thing posted by pluvia is the official one...but sometimes rules r bent...like my senior who did Chinese beginner while the whole life he has spoken Chinese and learnt in Singapore...


I dunno whether it scales badly, but according to a list I got, it does...
It does have band 6, in fact several students at my school get band 6. But yeah, even 93 ranked 4 to 5 among 3000s students who did ESL in 2005.

How about consulting to yr. teacher and seeing past papers and think which suits u best...

i know someone that was born here and is doing ESL. and no im not joking.

 

[Tuna]

A couple of people I know had exceeded living in Aus for more than 5 years and they were able to do ESL. The Board of Studies never checked.

 

[pLuvia]

my judgement of "doing badly" in prelim english is not meeting the average mark

Answers your question, also consult with your teacher, because going down to ESL maybe the biggest mistake.

Well, that 5yrs thing posted by pluvia is the official one...but sometimes rules r bent...like my senior who did Chinese beginner while the whole life he has spoken Chinese and learnt in Singapore...

Same my friend is doing Greek Continuers and is Greek.

 

[airie]

Answers your question, also consult with your teacher, because going down to ESL maybe the biggest mistake.

Why would that be though? Do you mean that if my English's up to the standards of Eng Std, it would be better for me to do Eng Std than ESL?

 

[pLuvia]

I'm not sure but my friend she did standard then dropped to ESL and said it is really easy much easier than standard. But if you are capable of doing Advanced then do it or standard in that case

But don't think that doing an easier course will let you achieve high marks, you have to work really hard, because for standard it's really hard to get band 5 and nearly impossible to get band 6, most possibly the same for ESL.

 

[A l]

But don't think that doing an easier course will let you achieve high marks, you have to work really hard, because for standard it's really hard to get band 5 and nearly impossible to get band 6, most possibly the same for ESL.

I would have to disagree there. The reason for those low percentages is because the majority of the candidature in the lower level courses obviously don't perform as well as those in higher level courses. Either way, the total number of people getting a band 5 and band 6 in English (Standard) and English as a Second Language has increased, while the total number of people getting a band 5 and band 6 in English (Advanced) has decreased.
I would recommend your choice to be based on what texts and concepts you prefer to study. Check your school teachers for what texts and electives would be studied in the HSC English (Advanced), English (Standard) and English as a Second Language courses. Choose the course that contains the electives and texts which best suit your liking and personal preferences. By doing so, you'll know that you'll be enjoying the course more and will eventually score well in it.

 

[VQ]

and nearly impossible to get band 6, most possibly the same for ESL.

I and my friends sometimes wonder why...because actually the examplar sample itself is even not WOW...and we think we can achieve that bands...but sometimes it turns we don't..*or maybe we put ourselves bit too high?

 

[Survivor39]

Airie, if you are comfortable and doing well English Advanced, then stay in it. It will require a little bit more work than ESL because you need to learn some extra prescribed texts.

You CANNOT do ESL if, by the time you enter the course, you have been in Australia for more than 5 years. Of course, there will always be exception like you have mentioned. But that is the official Board of Studies Rule. They do random checks.

If you are eligible, and is not confident in Adv English, then by all means, do ESL.

There are roughly 2% of the students who gets Band 6 each year in ESL. An HSC mark of 90 in ESL usually scales higher or equal to the actual scale mark (e.g 90 HSC approx. = 90 scaled, 91 HSC approx. = 92 scaled). But if you get something like a Band 4 or lower, it will start to scale down bad. As long as you aim for a high band 5 and more, you won't be disadvantaged.

My advice - either do Advanced or ESL. Advanced and Standard are very similar and require to learn similar numbers of texts. You might as well do Advanced.

I hope this helps.

 

[airie]

Hmmm thanks for that...Yeah we'll see. Just starting the year so I have no idea if I'd do brilliantly or fail miserably in Adv English XP

 

[XcarvengerX]

My friend came from New Zealand 4.5 years ago and he is eligible to do ESL. He has the same problem with you, i.e. wanna do English Advance or ESL as his english is very good. He evetually chose ESL as the workload is not as much as Advance so he can divide his time to study for his other subjects.

So my advice is if you are not a hard-worker, then do ESL because it would increase your chance to get high marks in your other subjects, of course unless you are good in english, do Advance, as ESL is easy and boring. (I am doing ESL)

PS. I don't know if English Advance is fun or not as I have only been in Advance at the end of year 10 (after SC) when we have a lot of fun (it's after SC though). My teacher wanted me to experience Advance first so I won't regret what English course I will choose in year 11.

 

[airie]

So did you do Eng Adv in Year 11? I don't know if I'm doing well or not atm cos we only just had an assessment...but I doubt that I'm good at English, that's for sure (ha, a paradox! @.@ ... Ahh well excuse my post-English-exam syndrome )

What are you doing in ESL anyway? I find myself being rathered bored by Eng Adv right now Mountainous piles of analyses...sigh. Hopefully poetry won't be as boring :S

 

[XcarvengerX]

So did you do Eng Adv in Year 11?

No, I decided to do ESL in Year 11 because I am quite lazy .

What are you doing in ESL anyway? I find myself being rathered bored by Eng Adv right now Mountainous piles of analyses...sigh. Hopefully poetry won't be as boring :S

In term 4 last year, we do Text on Society, i.e. how to write different types of text types, like review, letters, etc. This term, we do Area of Study Journey, and my teacher choose "The China Coin" book, which is very boring but he said easy to get a good mark on. Next term, we will be doing Peter Skrzynecki's Immigrant Chronicle (poems) and probably some listening... Quite typical English class, but with less work than advance and standard.

Band 6 is quite hard to get though. My teacher said you have to answer every questions in HSC satisfactorily. Even then, you need some luck to get band 6... Wow! I don't even have much luck, let alone good luck, not that I can know that for sure. Anyway, good luck for you too. You need it for Advance I believe...