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Farm subsidies (2 Viewers)

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katie_tully

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mr_shittles said:
Let me make this point if I may. I live in Sydney and we put in a new lawn a couple of months ago. We've got water restrictions, we dont get to water our lawns freely (no hosing), but we never complain like those farmers.

To top it off, as Sydneysiders, we do not receive subsidies from the government to protect our grass. In Sydney, we are in grought, but we hack it. We get on with our lives, try to conserve water as best as possible and pray for rain. We dont whinge and squeeze money out of the taxpayer. In fact, Sydneysiders pay most of the taxes that go into funding these ridiculously expensive schemes for rural Australians.
I can't believe you just equated your NEW LAWN to farmers not being able to produce crops for 4 years. Crops they rely on for a living. Nice work. :rolleyes:

If your front lawn dies, you don't go into debt. Do you? Be honest. Nobody out here gets money for their lawns either, and town people are on exactly the same water restrictions when it comes to their lawns.

That's the most ridiculous argument so far.
 
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mr_shittles said:
Let me make this point if I may. I live in Sydney and we put in a new lawn a couple of months ago. We've got water restrictions, we dont get to water our lawns freely (no hosing), but we never complain like those farmers.

To top it off, as Sydneysiders, we do not receive subsidies from the government to protect our grass. In Sydney, we are in grought, but we hack it. We get on with our lives, try to conserve water as best as possible and pray for rain. We dont whinge and squeeze money out of the taxpayer. In fact, Sydneysiders pay most of the taxes that go into funding these ridiculously expensive schemes for rural Australians.
DOES YOUR GRASS FEED YOUR FUCKING FAMILY? How hard can it be to understand?
 
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katie_tully

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hahahahaha.
My heart goes out to those who have lost their front lawns. Honestly. There is nothing worse than a nicee $700,000 house, with a shitty front lawn. Oh the horror.
 

White Rabbit

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The problem is most city people think that the world ends at Penrith (Katoomba if they get really adventurous) and they fail to realise the extent of this problem. I've been back in Sydney for 3 days and have already heard people complaining about greater water restrictions, while places like Walgett and Brewarrina haven't seen addequate rain in almost a decade (8 Years in drought I believe is the offical statment). The idea that we faze out ag all together is a complete joke. What happens then? Ag is more than an industry, it's a way of life and is the backbone of rural australia.

On that note, Bathurst has no water restrictions, which is ammusing. There's talk of pumping out the water that has collected in the mines at Oberon/Lithgow either into Warragamba (what they're leaning towards) or perhaps out west.
 

White Rabbit

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mr_shittles said:
Let me make this point if I may. I live in Sydney and we put in a new lawn a couple of months ago. We've got water restrictions, we dont get to water our lawns freely (no hosing), but we never complain like those farmers.

To top it off, as Sydneysiders, we do not receive subsidies from the government to protect our grass. In Sydney, we are in grought, but we hack it. We get on with our lives, try to conserve water as best as possible and pray for rain. We dont whinge and squeeze money out of the taxpayer. In fact, Sydneysiders pay most of the taxes that go into funding these ridiculously expensive schemes for rural Australians.

You are being sarcastic, aren't you?
 
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katie_tully

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White Rabbit said:
You are being sarcastic, aren't you?
No. We're under the impression that he honestly does not comprehend the magnitude of the problem.

I'm suprised Bathurst doesn't have water restrictions. I've got mates at CSU from Parkes, and when I was there I was like...'Wow, 20 minute showers?', but apparently it isn't a problem. Yet.
 

leetom

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On Telstra- as soon as Telstra becomes fully privatised, will it even be obligated to provide services in the rural regions? Once entirely privately owned, it should not be responsible for what standard of communications our rural population are receiving. What will happen then?

On John Howard and farms- by the sound of it, John Howard is prepared to back farms-even not very viable ones- solely because being farms, they are symbols of what we are as a nation and they define our character. Is this sensible? Surely, economic practicality should prevail over colonial nostalgia.
 
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leetom said:
On Telstra- as soon as Telstra becomes fully privatised, will it even be obligated to provide services in the rural regions? Once entirely privately owned, it should not be responsible for what standard of communications our rural population are receiving. What will happen then?
The USO will remain, and Telstra will still be subject to it given their largely government established dominant market position. This has been the case in other countries who have privatised telecommunications services, and I don't see any reason why we would deviate from this.

As to your second point, what you've said does have merit, but I'm not sure that economic practicality is an adequate way to assess the situation when what you're discussing is the way people have made a living up until now. Regardless of whether you dismiss it as cultural nostalgia, agriculture has played a significant role in our history, and I don't think letting such endeavours fold is in our best interests (Far better to shield them from the drought, then invest sensibly in improving technology, etc, in order to make them viable). Nor do I see people as being particularly willing to give up on farming for more financially viable endeavours, as I don't think money is the sole reason (Or any reason at all), why people would decide upon this lifestyle.

I also think a lot of people tend to forget that farming isn't an isolated industry. Without it there are effects which flow on to the rest of the economy. For example, due to the extended periods of drought, there are now less trains running wheat shipments (As the wheat hasn't grown), meaning less work for drivers and related staff. Regardless of whether people like it, and regardless of whether it's "financially viable", agriculture *does* form the basis for many forms of employment within our economy which one can easily overlook upon initial investigation of the issue.
 

leetom

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What is a USO? Is it forever binding? Making Telstra maintain services to rural areas seems to defy the idea behind privatisation to me.
 

mr_shittles

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leetom said:
What is a USO? Is it forever binding? Making Telstra maintain services to rural areas seems to defy the idea behind privatisation to me.
USO stands for Universal Service Obligation. Its a set of restrictions placed on Telstra that require it to provide more "equal" pricing of services for those in rural and city areas. Since it costs more to service rural customers, and less to service city customers, Telstra uses excess profits from city customers to pay for the highly unprofitable rural network. And yes, it is damaging Telstra's value (both for the taxpayer as well as all the other 2.5 million Australians who own shares in it)

But so long as those crackheads in the National Party are weilding too much power, this ridiculous system will continue and Telstra will be left subsidising people who want five-star telecommunications services but aren't prepared to pay reasonable prices for them.
 

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