frigey and the cops (2 Viewers)

Frigid

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here's tonight's law and policing-related story:

i was driving home from the train station in the dark and wet. when i started my car and turned on the lights, my high-beams were on so i flicked the switch back a notch and assumed my normal driving lights were on. my console display was lit, so i assumed all was good.

since the beginning of the trip i'd covered about 2-3kms of well-lit, medium traffic roads, with cars ahead of me at almost all times. i was not aware of any malfunction of my driving lights.

as i went up the slight incline of one main road, i saw a vehicle about 50 - 100 metres down the road with its low-beam on, and then it flashed me with its high beam. not knowing why, i flashed it back with mine. as we drove past each other, it turned on the familiar red and blue blinkers and through my rear-vision mirror i became aware it was a police vehicle.

i immediately pulled over and it pulled over behind me. the officers were cordial and asked me to undergo a random-breath test. they informed me that my lights weren't on. i said but they're on. they said that before i flashed them my lights were on low-beam. if that was so, i was not aware of the fact, because my centre console was on.

my breath test turned out negative (so it should be), but they had a look at my drivers license. i showed them, whereupon one officer photographed it using a digital camera. then i apologised for their troubles and they left me without issuing an infringement notice or anything of the sort.

my only concern is their capture of my personal details. whereas if i had committed an offence, which i argue that i did not, under s215 of the Australian Road Rules, then what power, other than that of requesting personal details, do they have in collecting personal details?

the end. :)
 

hfis

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Take it to the High Court man. You really need to get yourself one of those 'What Would Kirby J Do?' bracelets.
 

Frigid

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hfis said:
Take it to the High Court man. You really need to get yourself one of those 'What Would Kirby J Do?' bracelets.
hahaha ;)

now come to think abt it.... i do! i do! someone gogogo get frigey a sterling silver cuff, engraved, 'what would Kirbz do?'...

moi birthday oct 11 (first tuesday after reading week back at uni) ;)
 

Jonathan A

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Frigid said:
here's tonight's law and policing-related story:

i was driving home from the train station in the dark and wet. when i started my car and turned on the lights, my high-beams were on so i flicked the switch back a notch and assumed my normal driving lights were on. my console display was lit, so i assumed all was good.

since the beginning of the trip i'd covered about 2-3kms of well-lit, medium traffic roads, with cars ahead of me at almost all times. i was not aware of any malfunction of my driving lights.

as i went up the slight incline of one main road, i saw a vehicle about 50 - 100 metres down the road with its low-beam on, and then it flashed me with its high beam. not knowing why, i flashed it back with mine. as we drove past each other, it turned on the familiar red and blue blinkers and through my rear-vision mirror i became aware it was a police vehicle.

i immediately pulled over and it pulled over behind me. the officers were cordial and asked me to undergo a random-breath test. they informed me that my lights weren't on. i said but they're on. they said that before i flashed them my lights were on low-beam. if that was so, i was not aware of the fact, because my centre console was on.

my breath test turned out negative (so it should be), but they had a look at my drivers license. i showed them, whereupon one officer photographed it using a digital camera. then i apologised for their troubles and they left me without issuing an infringement notice or anything of the sort.

my only concern is their capture of my personal details. whereas if i had committed an offence, which i argue that i did not, under s215 of the Australian Road Rules, then what power, other than that of requesting personal details, do they have in collecting personal details?

the end. :)

The police have powers to view your details. It is their police power. I refer you to the Police Powers (Vehicles) Act 1998 (NSW) s6 which states that a police officer has the right to ascertain your identity and the identity of any passenger. The proviso in the Act is that the officer must notify you they are a police officer and given they were in uniform, they fulfilled this. The photopraphing of your license is apart of the new camera system. You would note that the police digitally recorded your incident by video and your voice was also recorded. The police did not do anything wrong.

Do note that the Australian Road Rules are not officially the law in NSW. You need to refer to the relevant Act. Also note that the Crimes Act 1900 has provisions allowing a police officer to ask of your identity. If you fail to disclose this or fail to prove it, the police officer is able to place you under arrest.
 

011

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I agree, straight to the HCA for you.

Or you should have just shouted out 'i do law, you know!' there and then.
 
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Jonathan A

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Police don't care whether you do law. I work in a law firm and like my boss said, it does not matter how smart you think you are or whether you push rank as a lawyer, the public servants have the power at the end of the day and if you get them on the wrong side, they are going to make things difficult for you. The problem is, they have the legal power to do that.
 

011

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Jonathan A said:
Police don't care whether you do law. I work in a law firm and like my boss said, it does not matter how smart you think you are or whether you push rank as a lawyer, the public servants have the power at the end of the day and if you get them on the wrong side, they are going to make things difficult for you. The problem is, they have the legal power to do that.
Ok, but I was kidding?
 

erawamai

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011 said:
I agree, straight to the HCA for you.

Or you should have just shouted out 'i do law, you know!' there and then.
I bet that would go over well

'I do law you stupid police man!!!'

:rolleyes:

-------

What firm do you work for JA? :)
 

Frigid

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Jonathan A said:
The police have powers to view your details. It is their police power. I refer you to the Police Powers (Vehicles) Act 1998 (NSW) s6 which states that a police officer has the right to ascertain your identity and the identity of any passenger. The proviso in the Act is that the officer must notify you they are a police officer and given they were in uniform, they fulfilled this. The photopraphing of your license is apart of the new camera system. You would note that the police digitally recorded your incident by video and your voice was also recorded. The police did not do anything wrong.

Do note that the Australian Road Rules are not officially the law in NSW. You need to refer to the relevant Act. Also note that the Crimes Act 1900 has provisions allowing a police officer to ask of your identity. If you fail to disclose this or fail to prove it, the police officer is able to place you under arrest.
with respect, mr jonathan, i never expressly or impliedly asserted the police were 'wrong'. they were doing me a service by alerting me to my lights.

however, i am concerned, as i said, abt the capture and storage of personal information in a digital form.

q - what governs then, if not the Australian Road Rules? the last time i was a local court, i'm pretty sure i heard the majo mention the ARR.
 

Jonathan A

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Frigid said:
however, i am concerned, as i said, abt the capture and storage of personal information in a digital form.
Close enough.

The police store them so if you dispute anything in court, they have a backup. You have access to that if you want to dispute anything. The information they took at the scene is already on file. What the police have done is ensure correlation.

The Camera system works. The Deputy Commissioner noted that all cases involving the camera before court have ended up in favour of the police. Only one person has pleaded not guilty and challenged the evidence - the magistrate dismissed that application.

q - what governs then, if not the Australian Road Rules? the last time i was a local court, i'm pretty sure i heard the majo mention the ARR.

They would have to have been enabled by an Act. I think it is the Transport Act if my memory served me correctly. Road Rules are generally regulations (or by-laws).
 

Jonathan A

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I shoudl mention, the substantive aspect would be covered in the ARR, however procedure would not be in that piece of law.
 

Frigid

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uni is better than HSCers, but u dun see me whinge abt that, do u Gavvy?
 

hfis

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Frigid said:
uni is better than HSCers, but u dun see me whinge abt that, do u Gavvy?
I find the defendant fucking owned. Appeal dismissed, bitch.


Ahh, I'm loving this bracelet.
 

Frigid

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i want a silver cuff of sorts for moi birthday.
 

santaslayer

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Jonathan A said:
Close enough.

The police store them so if you dispute anything in court, they have a backup. You have access to that if you want to dispute anything. The information they took at the scene is already on file. What the police have done is ensure correlation.





.
Wait, one question.
What does the photograph of one's license prove?
 

Jonathan A

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santaslayer said:
Wait, one question.
What does the photograph of one's license prove?

Well I asked that question to my father who is a commander in the Highway Patrol and he said he is not aware of such practice with taking license details in that manner. It is still not prohibited. The problem police have is that license check by police does not involve photographs. So a photo of the license could be used in proving that was the license produced should the officer found it would later be necessary to confirm the identity of the driver.
 
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xeuyrawp

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Whether it's illegal or not, I think it would have been judicious for the cop to tell you what he was doing.
 

Jonathan A

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PwarYuex said:
Whether it's illegal or not, I think it would have been judicious for the cop to tell you what he was doing.
They don't have to tell you anything. Whether one thinks its a nice thing to do or not, that's not the role of the police officer. If frigey has a complaint, he should take it up with the police station.
 

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