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General thoughts: English Advanced Modules Paper 2 (1 Viewer)

Mythos

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Actually, they can penalise a maximum of 2-3 marks for not having a conclusion, so technically it's still possible to remain in the Band 6 range.
I've always been told by teachers that not having a conclusion is worse than not having your last body paragraph
 

Ununoctium

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I highly doubt a marker will penalise an essay for lacking a conclusion.

Firstly, they do not deduct marks. They look for reasons to add marks. If your argument has been sophisticated and excellent, they are not going to reduce your mark because it is lacking a conclusion.

Secondly, the marks are awarded in your analysis. While your conclusion can be utilised to provide insight and reiterate the question, and hence conclusions can be used to differentiate the very best of students, it is simply false that you will drop a whole performance band (or 2-3 marks as a BOS user has just asserted) for lacking a conclusion. Yes, a conclusion ensures the cohesiveness and sophisticated structure of your essay, but again, if your essay is outstanding up to the point of the conclusion, you are still eligible for full marks.

And no, Mythos, your statement is just wrong. A last body paragraph that's filled with new analysis and ideas would be far more beneficial than a conclusion that does not provide new analysis (any conclusion that does provide new analysis is a poor conclusion anyway). Again, marks are directly awarded for insight and analysis relevant to the question.

Of course though, if you can, add a conclusion. But don't worry if you didn't have time. You'll be fine.
 
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TQuadded

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I highly doubt a marker will penalise an essay for lacking a conclusion.

Firstly, they do not deduct marks. They look for reasons to add marks. If your argument has been sophisticated and excellent, they are not going to reduce your mark because it is lacking a conclusion.

Secondly, the marks are awarded in your analysis. While your conclusion can be utilised to provide insight and reiterate the question, and hence conclusions can be used to differentiate the very best of students, it is simply false that you will drop a whole performance band (or 2-3 marks as a BOS user has just asserted) for lacking a conclusion. Yes, a conclusion ensures the cohesiveness and sophisticated structure of your essay, but again, if your essay is outstanding up to the point of the conclusion, you are still eligible for full marks.

And no, Mythos, your statement is just wrong. A last body paragraph that's filled with new analysis and ideas would be far more beneficial than a conclusion that does not provide new analysis (any conclusion that does provide new analysis is a poor conclusion anyway). Again, marks are directly awarded for insight and analysis relevant to the question.

Of course though, if you can, add a conclusion. But don't worry if you didn't have time. You'll be fine.
One will not get full marks without a conclusion. The most you can get, if it's a state rank response but is missing a conclusion, will be 19/20. Sure, that's not the only essay structure there is, but if you don't conclude it, the markers would definitely forget about that 20/20.

It's like a checklist. "Introduction? Check. Arguments? Check. Conclusion? Err..."
 

Ununoctium

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One will not get full marks without a conclusion. The most you can get, if it's a state rank response but is missing a conclusion, will be 19/20. Sure, that's not the only essay structure there is, but if you don't conclude it, the markers would definitely forget about that 20/20.

It's like a checklist. "Introduction? Check. Arguments? Check. Conclusion? Err..."
This will be a circular argument, and since none of us can definitively prove our claims, there's no real point going on haha :). However, if a response is state ranking quality, and it lacks a conclusion, do you seriously think the HSC markers would say "yep this response is outstanding, but it lacks a one sentence conclusion, so despite their efforts an despite their great, relevant analysis, this isn't a high A"?

How did you feel like you went in the exam? :)
 

Mythos

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This will be a circular argument, and since none of us can definitively prove our claims, there's no real point going on haha :). However, if a response is state ranking quality, and it lacks a conclusion, do you seriously think the HSC markers would say "yep this response is outstanding, but it lacks a one sentence conclusion, so despite their efforts an despite their great, relevant analysis, this isn't a high A"?

How did you feel like you went in the exam? :)
well if you don't write a conclusion, you didn't write an essay, it would just be notes which instantly pushes you out of a high A range. A conclusion isn't just one sentence, it completes your argument and the struture of your essay. English is also about time management.
 

mkristie

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I unfortunately didn't get to write a conclusion for my mod A essay, but I made sure to constantly synthesise my arguments throughout the essay and reaffirm my thesis/link to the question at the end of my key points. My analysis was pretty solid and I basically got my whole essay down (6.5 pages), except for the "in conclusion, through a study of both texts, r3 shows this, while lfr revalues and shows this, thus highlighting pacino's ability to offer new insights into deceit". Would I really be pushed out of a band 6 range for not having that one line, even though I basically wrote something like that at the end of my main points/throughout my entire essay?
 

TQuadded

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This will be a circular argument, and since none of us can definitively prove our claims, there's no real point going on haha :). However, if a response is state ranking quality, and it lacks a conclusion, do you seriously think the HSC markers would say "yep this response is outstanding, but it lacks a one sentence conclusion, so despite their efforts an despite their great, relevant analysis, this isn't a high A"?

How did you feel like you went in the exam? :)
A conclusion is "a judgement or decision reached by reasoning".

What Mythos said is true. Not only does the conclusion allow you to give a final say about your analysis, but it also gives you the chance to end it on a good note - preferably with style. Remember, HSC markers are not robots. (Although it seems that way.) What do you think they'll think if you just end your analysis without concluding it? Probably something like:

"... Those are some good points. Then for the conclus- wait, then so what?"

As for how I think I went, I'm prepared for the worst. I feel like I'm standing on the verge of Band 5 - Band 6, hopefully falling into the latter one. But then again, I'm Mr. Science and Math, though I wouldn't be surprised to get a good mark seeing how super subjective this subject is.
 
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Ununoctium

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I am confident in saying that you are not "pushed out" of A range because you lack a conclusion. There are HSC markers at my school who repeatedly say that if you run out of time, omit the conclusion, for they have really made their mind about your mark by the end of your last body paragraph and the conclusion provides no substance to your argument.

TQ - of course a conclusion can benefit your argument; it provides cohesion and an opportunity for the student to convincingly reiterate their thesis. However, as you said, HSC markers are not robots. They will not deduct marks from an excellent extended response for it lacking a conclusion. Remember that they see a wide range of responses, and they will reward those that show an engagement with the module, provide insight and answer the question.

Remember, the markers do not 'penalise' students unless the response is atypical (eg. offensive, has drawings etc.). They're told about a billion times at the marker centre to positively mark and to find reasons to give marks, so you would never, ever see a marker deduct 2-3 marks off an essay for consciously lacking a conclusion, or running out of time.

ANYWAY!! :)

What let you down in the papers, TQ? I didn't realise that Atwood poem in Paper 1 Section 1 was about some kind of natural destruction. I was trying to figure out what that last stanza meant, but I just talked about his delighted personal response in his natural discoveries, his intellectual curiosity in discovering. I talked about the structure (ie. regular enjambment) reflecting the excited personal response to discovering nature and so on. I think it was a good exam for me, not brilliant, but good :).
 

Mythos

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idk, most of my teachers are current hsc markers (at a top 10 selective school) and they always emphasise that a conclusion is more important than finishing your last body paragraph if you're running out of time. Are there any teachers on this site that can confirm?

Personally I think not writing a conclusion is like not drawing a side on a square, doesn't matter how straight and fine your other three sides are, you didn't draw a square.

It doesn't matter, english is finished anyways but just sayin
 

TQuadded

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I am confident in saying that you are not "pushed out" of A range because you lack a conclusion. There are HSC markers at my school who repeatedly say that if you run out of time, omit the conclusion, for they have really made their mind about your mark by the end of your last body paragraph and the conclusion provides no substance to your argument.

TQ - of course a conclusion can benefit your argument; it provides cohesion and an opportunity for the student to convincingly reiterate their thesis. However, as you said, HSC markers are not robots. They will not deduct marks from an excellent extended response for it lacking a conclusion. Remember that they see a wide range of responses, and they will reward those that show an engagement with the module, provide insight and answer the question.

Remember, the markers do not 'penalise' students unless the response is atypical (eg. offensive, has drawings etc.). They're told about a billion times at the marker centre to positively mark and to find reasons to give marks, so you would never, ever see a marker deduct 2-3 marks off an essay for consciously lacking a conclusion, or running out of time.

ANYWAY!! :)

What let you down in the papers, TQ? I didn't realise that Atwood poem in Paper 1 Section 1 was about some kind of natural destruction. I was trying to figure out what that last stanza meant, but I just talked about his delighted personal response in his natural discoveries, his intellectual curiosity in discovering. I talked about the structure (ie. regular enjambment) reflecting the excited personal response to discovering nature and so on. I think it was a good exam for me, not brilliant, but good :).
As I came ~5/9 internally in English Advanced, I expect my peers to drag me down, specially in a ~450 ranked school. I probably did above average, but because I have insane memorization and mathematical skills, I feel as though this impairs my English. That and also I just came to Australia roughly two years ago.
 

Ununoctium

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Good discussion guys. :)

Best wishes for your English exam results.

If only it were done... still have Extension to go...
ugh... textual dynamics...
 

EarthSci34

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I highly doubt a marker will penalise an essay for lacking a conclusion.

Firstly, they do not deduct marks. They look for reasons to add marks. If your argument has been sophisticated and excellent, they are not going to reduce your mark because it is lacking a conclusion.

Secondly, the marks are awarded in your analysis. While your conclusion can be utilised to provide insight and reiterate the question, and hence conclusions can be used to differentiate the very best of students, it is simply false that you will drop a whole performance band (or 2-3 marks as a BOS user has just asserted) for lacking a conclusion. Yes, a conclusion ensures the cohesiveness and sophisticated structure of your essay, but again, if your essay is outstanding up to the point of the conclusion, you are still eligible for full marks.

And no, Mythos, your statement is just wrong. A last body paragraph that's filled with new analysis and ideas would be far more beneficial than a conclusion that does not provide new analysis (any conclusion that does provide new analysis is a poor conclusion anyway). Again, marks are directly awarded for insight and analysis relevant to the question.

Of course though, if you can, add a conclusion. But don't worry if you didn't have time. You'll be fine.
Ughh I don't want to disagree with you, but one of the marking criteria says something about structure (along with the analysis and answering the question, of course). The structure of an essay consists of an introduction, body paragraphs and a conclusion. As you said, markers are looking to award marks... how can they award marks to something that doesn't exist?

Your essay, no matter how good it is, if it lacks a conclusion is simply not a complete essay. The conclusion helps the marker re-affirm their understanding of your argument as well creating an opportunity for the student to end their essay with a BANG!! :D A sound conclusion still adds value to the individual's response, even though most markers claim that a mark has already been formed in their head by the time they have reached the conclusion.
 

teridax

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Ughh I don't want to disagree with you, but one of the marking criteria says something about structure (along with the analysis and answering the question, of course). The structure of an essay consists of an introduction, body paragraphs and a conclusion. As you said, markers are looking to award marks... how can they award marks to something that doesn't exist?

Your essay, no matter how good it is, if it lacks a conclusion is simply not a complete essay. The conclusion helps the marker re-affirm their understanding of your argument as well creating an opportunity for the student to end their essay with a BANG!! :D A sound conclusion still adds value to the individual's response, even though most markers claim that a mark has already been formed in their head by the time they have reached the conclusion.
Pretty much this. I mean, having no conclusion to an essay is like saying that you won't draw the third side of a triangle, which is obviously self-refuting. And I remember Crobat (note: he got 96 overall in Advanced English for those who want verification) telling me a while ago that a conclusion is the difference between 19 and 20 out of 20 - so if you have no conclusion, you will certainly not receive full marks irrespective of how excellent the intro and body paragraphs are.
 
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jakewist

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Ughh I don't want to disagree with you, but one of the marking criteria says something about structure (along with the analysis and answering the question, of course). The structure of an essay consists of an introduction, body paragraphs and a conclusion. As you said, markers are looking to award marks... how can they award marks to something that doesn't exist?

Your essay, no matter how good it is, if it lacks a conclusion is simply not a complete essay. The conclusion helps the marker re-affirm their understanding of your argument as well creating an opportunity for the student to end their essay with a BANG!! :D A sound conclusion still adds value to the individual's response, even though most markers claim that a mark has already been formed in their head by the time they have reached the conclusion.
My teacher who also marked English HSC said to always have a complete essay no matter what, even if you have to cut your body paragraphs or if its incomplete. A complete essay is better than an incomplete essay.
 

sweetalmond

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I wrote 3.5 pages for Mod A. I had really bad time management. Anyone know which band 3.5 pages will put me because I didn't have time to write a conclusion, I barely got down the last few words of my second argument before the examiners declared the dreaded words TIMES UP!
 

Stimuli

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I feel as though Paper 1 rolled me more than paper 2; The creative stimulus killed me. I expected Hamlet to destroy my ATAR but it wasn't, perhaps I just expected it to be really hard. I managed 6.5 pages for Module A, 5.5 for Mod B and 6 for Mod C :)
 

TQuadded

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I wrote 3.5 pages for Mod A. I had really bad time management. Anyone know which band 3.5 pages will put me because I didn't have time to write a conclusion, I barely got down the last few words of my second argument before the examiners declared the dreaded words TIMES UP!
Just by not having a conclusion excludes you from getting full marks. It depends on how big your writing is though. I only wrote 4 pages each, but my handwriting is small, I guess.
 

swagmeister

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I didn't think we had to have conclusions for essays?

That must be the easy I keep getting 19/20 instead of full marks

so much for a 100 ATAR...
 

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