Help with Donne: PLEASE! (1 Viewer)

[p00_p00]

Well i just found out i have 2 use different readings for Donne. As in its compulsoray and could b asked in the HSC. my teacher sed not 2 worry bout it. Any1 give us some help

I have critiCs but no redings as in Marxist, Feminist, Aethist etc etc etc

 

[freestyler__54]

could be asked in the hsc? you have to have them dont you? just do a net search, look for steinbeck, ts eliot, etc...

 

[kaseita]

what has your school been up to????
that's basically half of module B!

the feminist one I'm using is stevie davis. if you look her up, you should find something on her.
petrarchan reading is also a good one. just find a petrarchan site, get a few quotes, and compare their type to donne's type of writing. you'll see major differences.

 

[p00_p00]

hmmm wat about different readings?????

 

[kaseita]

feminist is one reading
i.e. how donne is insecure, is too male dominant, blah blah. the ol'famous "male pervasive force" from elegie:to my mistress
petrarchan's another reading, from a petrarchan point of view
the critics you have are also readings, but I figure your talking about literary critics? they're a literary reading.

 

[p00_p00]

Originally posted by kaseita
feminist is one reading
i.e. how donne is insecure, is too male dominant, blah blah. the ol'famous "male pervasive force" from elegie:to my mistress
petrarchan's another reading, from a petrarchan point of view
the critics you have are also readings, but I figure your talking about literary critics? they're a literary reading.

hey thx

I got feminist abnd new crittics reading off advice line, and i mite throw in traditional/classical views


WTF is petrachan's viewpt????

Also wat skool u from Kaseita?

 

[googy_1985]

I am using:
T.S Eliot
Thomas Carew
John Dryden

I have a few quotes on them saying they agre good/bad because they provoke interest in religion etc.....

 

[kaseita]

Those who support petrarchan take several ideas about Donne's poetry

1. too logical. poetry should be more direct, emotional, and not involve a certain context to understand the poetry. donne uses alot of metaphors that reflect the times, since its the renaissance, so his use of say the compass in valediction:forbidden mourning, is very modern.
2. not enough bias/emotive language/flowery language. petrarchan poetry is completely flowery, and uses common metaphors that can be found across different petrarchan poems. Its a technique, like a stereotype, that was used. its all similes/metaphors, but simple ones. easy to understand by just looking at the language they use.

there's some other stuff on teh petrarchan view pt. I'll add the stuff later.

oh yea, I go to knox grammar.

 

[user]

I think I'm stuffed because my SCHOOL didn't believe that we needed to cover specific critics in detail. We had been covering different readings, but not an individual perspective. Someone mentioned to one of the teachers during the last week that it says in the marking guidelines that the better responses mentioned specific critics, and other stuff. Then they woke up, and we spent the last lesson or so writing down critic's quotes.

 

[tweakin]

ting mate, how fucked is our skool then?
I knew nothing of this differnt viewpoints and readings? I knew about petrarchan love and feminism...but i didnt know we had to have different perspectives on them?!!?!
Farrrk....i just have a bunch of quotes from different critics about his poetry that i was gonna relate to a couple of his poems.
The sample answer from last years hsc doesnt seem to have any of these viewpoints? ONly critical quotes.

H E L P M E J E B U S

 

[kaseita]

I'll just type up my notes here on Petrarchan

Petrarchan Features
1) Idealised woman
2) Largely ignored Joy of love/Contentment of Mutual passion
3) Concentrated on the pains and sorrows of love i.e. absence, rejection, incomparable beauty of lady, unwavering cruelty of the lady.
e.g."I gaze, think, burn, weep: she who destroys me always appears to me in my sweet pain"
4) Analysed love in relation to, and its effect on :
i) Heart of man
ii) capacity of virtue
5)Greatly used flowery language to give dignity and power to love
- rhetorical, stylistic devices
6)The Petrarchan Mistress completely dominates the poet - physical manner.

Viewpoint against Donne because
1)Tone and Temper different - Donnes is optimistic/bonds with his focus of attention (not admires)
2)Imagery within Donne's poems
3)Donne satirises Petrarch.
e.g. "For God's sake, hold your tongue and let me love" the Canonization
4)Rhythms - Donne is quite disjointed, or structures his poems in order to place emphasis in different places. Petrarchan has a fairly constant tempo.
5)Doesn't worship women. Concentrates more on male superiority.
e.g. "Male pervasive force" Elegie:To his Mistres.

 

[googy_1985]

Just speaking with the HSC Advise line.
They said the topic is 'Criticial Study of texts' therefore you can have
A) Different readings
OR
B) Critic quotes

 

[~bec~]

according to our english department (which manages to contradict itself on pretty much every topic in one way or antoher)

They all seem to say that the most important reading of donne is your own-what your reading of his work is and how you view it

 

[kaseita]

technically it is, because ultimately, your the one writing the exam and giving an opinion on the question given to you.
but you do it in the light of other peoples readings, and you squeeze your own values and attitudes into it. so if your talking about the feminist reading, then you'll be either agreeing or disagreeing with what their view is...using language .
or you'll be comparing a donne supporter to a petrarchan supporter, and adding in your own bias.
but I don't think they're looking for a paragraph where you just say what you think about everything.

 

[user]

With references to Valediction, Batter my Heart and Hymn to God my God in my Sicknesse

FEMINIST
"Donne is such an arrogant prick. Look at him in "A Valediction: forbidding mourning". He tells his mistress or whatever to stay behind while he roams the world and has fun. "And though it in the centre sit, while the other far doth rome." And he expects that she will "lean and hearken" after him. Seriously, if I were her mistress, I'd divorce him immeaditly. You gotta treat women as equals. I mean god knows what he's doing while he's globetrotting. What else? He believes that he and his lover are the only people who know true love in this world? "Dull sublunary lovers love, whose soule is sense, cannot admit absence, because it doth remove those thigns which elemented it." WTF? YOU ARROGANT BASTASRD, are you saying that you and your mistress are the only ones who know the real meaning of love, and that everyone else in the world are whores? <bitch slaps Donne in the face>"

RELIGIOUS:
"Gee I wonder what Donne did to ask God to "ravish" him in Batter by Heart. You know, God is forgiving, and the first path to having God forgive you is to "turne your face againe" (Hymn to God, my god in my sicknesse). All you gotta do is ask for forgiveness, you don't have to ask God to "breake, blowe, burne and make me new, " even if you are "betrothed to your enemie" I mean, you obviously still believe in God because you "labour to admit you [God]"

Moderne:
"Dude this guy is pretty f*cked up in the head. He asks god to f*ck him, and he's got an obsession about spheres. And I don't understand all that crap about west and east and calvarie and "Japhet...Cham or Sem", I mean whose "purple wrapped" are you asking God to recieve you in? Maybe there's some kinda hidden meaning in these poems, but for now, f*k it, I don't have time for this s*it.

 

[lizzies85]

our teacher told us, if all else fails, make a critic up... give them your views on Donne's poetry, or any view u choose

 

[kaseita]

lol user, I'd classify you as one of those literary critics who think that you should be able to determine the meaning, without understanding the context.
here's a nice quote

"If you deny the theory that full appreciation of poetry is possible without belief in what the poet believes, then you deny the existence of 'poetry'..." I.A. Richardson

 

[p00_p00]

Thx every1 for the help

Thx every1 for everythin! I know a bit mre now but i think i mite not use the petrachan view cause i dont really know wat it is (sounds like a patriachal view..... they the same?)

Originally posted by kaseita
Those who support petrarchan take several ideas about Donne's poetry

1. too logical. poetry should be more direct, emotional, and not involve a certain context to understand the poetry. donne uses alot of metaphors that reflect the times, since its the renaissance, so his use of say the compass in valediction:forbidden mourning, is very modern.
2. not enough bias/emotive language/flowery language. petrarchan poetry is completely flowery, and uses common metaphors that can be found across different petrarchan poems. Its a technique, like a stereotype, that was used. its all similes/metaphors, but simple ones. easy to understand by just looking at the language they use.

there's some other stuff on teh petrarchan view pt. I'll add the stuff later.

oh yea, I go to knox grammar.

Thx for ur insights, and figures that u go 2 Knox or somethin - u know ur crap

Originally posted by Tweakin
ting mate, how fucked is our skool then?
I knew nothing of this differnt viewpoints and readings? I knew about petrarchan love and feminism...but i didnt know we had to have different perspectives on them?!!?!
Farrrk....i just have a bunch of quotes from different critics about his poetry that i was gonna relate to a couple of his poems.
The sample answer from last years hsc doesnt seem to have any of these viewpoints? ONly critical quotes.

H E L P M E J E B U S

Yeah man, our skool is fucked. Whos eng class u in cause Mcgee specifically told us it aint important. What an ass

Oh and whos JEBUS?

QUOTE]Originally posted by googy_1985
Just speaking with the HSC Advise line.
They said the topic is 'Criticial Study of texts' therefore you can have
A) Different readings
OR
B) Critic quotes

Thx mate. But ill try 2 incorporate the 2 so i can hide the shittyness of my essay!

Originally posted by User
With references to Valediction, Batter my Heart and Hymn to God my God in my Sicknesse

FEMINIST
"Donne is such an arrogant prick. Look at him in "A Valediction: forbidding mourning". He tells his mistress or whatever to stay behind while he roams the world and has fun. "And though it in the centre sit, while the other far doth rome." And he expects that she will "lean and hearken" after him. Seriously, if I were her mistress, I'd divorce him immeaditly. You gotta treat women as equals. I mean god knows what he's doing while he's globetrotting. What else? He believes that he and his lover are the only people who know true love in this world? "Dull sublunary lovers love, whose soule is sense, cannot admit absence, because it doth remove those thigns which elemented it." WTF? YOU ARROGANT BASTASRD, are you saying that you and your mistress are the only ones who know the real meaning of love, and that everyone else in the world are whores? <bitch slaps Donne in the face>"

RELIGIOUS:
"Gee I wonder what Donne did to ask God to "ravish" him in Batter by Heart. You know, God is forgiving, and the first path to having God forgive you is to "turne your face againe" (Hymn to God, my god in my sicknesse). All you gotta do is ask for forgiveness, you don't have to ask God to "breake, blowe, burne and make me new, " even if you are "betrothed to your enemie" I mean, you obviously still believe in God because you "labour to admit you [God]"

Moderne:
"Dude this guy is pretty f*cked up in the head. He asks god to f*ck him, and he's got an obsession about spheres. And I don't understand all that crap about west and east and calvarie and "Japhet...Cham or Sem", I mean whose "purple wrapped" are you asking God to recieve you in? Maybe there's some kinda hidden meaning in these poems, but for now, f*k it, I don't have time for this s*it.


Thx, a very nice and easy 2 understand interpetation!



Thx again every1

 

[p00_p00]

ok now im just lookin at all the competition im dealin wif for Eng alone! (notably Kasetia)


AHHHHHHH

 

[kaseita]

hehehehe
g'luck my competition
but hey, maybe we only share english? or maybe not.....


nah I'm not that great
wish I was though!
I've just got good notes, and all I've been doing is studying my quotes n texts
haven't really practiced much...just couldn't get myself to do it