Homosexuality - Choice or No? Disorder or No? (4 Viewers)

[Dustin_z]

I dont want to sound like a homophobe, but I think homosexuality is a sex fetish to be honest.

The whole homosexual 'sex' thing doesn't seem based around love. I mean whats this fisting business? And that 'watersports' stuff? Thats not LOVE, its something totally different.

Yes, heterosexuals also do that stuff and again its a sexual fetish.

 

[miss_b]

The whole homosexual 'sex' thing doesn't seem based around love. I mean whats this fisting business? And that 'watersports' stuff? Thats not LOVE, its something totally different.

That's a pretty big assumption now isn't it?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I have to agree with Asquithian, it's all just a social construction... If you had the right influences you would turn gay too Are you guys saying that when you were very little you never did anything slightly gay?

However as for this concept that "we're all bi and just don't know it", I think that's like saying "we're all jews and just don't know it". I see sexual inclination as something much like which religion you end up picking (appeals to you/family values/social values/experiences) or even just your favourite flavour of icecream of favourite brand of soda.

Dustin_z yes it's a sex fetish... as is "sex with women" if you want to put it that way. If you're claiming that gay men don't love each other only because the physical act seems to be what's paramount to being gay (as in straight relationships) you're obviously delusional.

edit: i certainly didnt CHOOSE homosexuality, and i certainly dont have a mental disorder

It's really hard for someone to make their own assessment as to whether they have a mental 'disorder'. Some may see homosexuality as a mental disorder because something in the brain doesn't confrom to their view of what is 'right', you can simply look back at them and claim that heterosexuality is a mental 'disorder' also (tho I guess we don't want this going too far...).

 

[Xayma]

I dont want to sound like a homophobe, but I think homosexuality is a sex fetish to be honest.

The whole homosexual 'sex' thing doesn't seem based around love. I mean whats this fisting business? And that 'watersports' stuff? Thats not LOVE, its something totally different.

Yes, heterosexuals also do that stuff and again its a sexual fetish.

Since obviously all homosexuals enjoy that sort of thing and have tried it on numerous occasions

 

[withoutaface]

i personally don't think people can be 'born gay', thats just my opinion.

Nor do I, but I believe that some people are born with a greater chance, given the same environmental conditions, of turning out gay.

 

[Xayma]

No one chooses it. Amount of choice you have is very little. You are a slave to your environment.

This begs the question 'What factors make people gay?'

...the answer is who knows?

Certainly some might say you choose to homosexual. In that with 'willpower' can be heterosexual. I have the feeling that that is true. However it is wrong to say that someone SHOULD act in a certain.

Just like there is nothing in the way of a heterosexual male getting off with another male there is nothing physically stopping a gay male getting off with a female.

It's all in the mind!

Of course there is nothing physically stopping a gay male getting off with a woman (many have children) but to encourage that sort of activity can not be too healthy mentally.

It also leads to things like beats becoming more secretive which helps the spread of disease.

 

[katie_tully]

The thread of revelations.

I am fully attracted to men. <3 men. Manly physique? Hello to you. :uhhuh:
I am also attracted to pretty females. <3 females. Womanly physique? Hello to you. :uhhuh:
I am not homosexual. I don't plan on marrying a woman (not that I can anyway, har har), as I am not interested in forming a relationship with one. Would I kiss one? Hell yes probably.
Why? Curiosity I think. Is homosexuality wrong? No. Just don't shove it in my face, or parade in your underpants on prime time television. I'm all for liberation, just don't be explicity gross about it.

Answer to question? I'm going with a social influence. If it were genetic, evolution, or the theory of natural selection/survival of the fittest would have killed them out...As they can't breed, therefore cannot continue their 'species' I guess. I dont like that word, species. However, heterosexuals are continuing their survival.
In reference to Ancient Greeks, Ancient Egyptians, Ancient whatevers were homosexual, but they had wives because they knew they needed to procreate.

 

[bubz :D]

I dont want to sound like a homophobe, but I think homosexuality is a sex fetish to be honest.

The whole homosexual 'sex' thing doesn't seem based around love. I mean whats this fisting business? And that 'watersports' stuff? Thats not LOVE, its something totally different.

Yes, heterosexuals also do that stuff and again its a sexual fetish.

do you know anyone who is gay?

 

[Atticus.]

I have to agree with Asquithian, it's all just a social construction... If you had the right influences you would turn gay too Are you guys saying that when you were very little you never did anything slightly gay?

However as for this concept that "we're all bi and just don't know it", I think that's like saying "we're all jews and just don't know it". I see sexual inclination as something much like which religion you end up picking (appeals to you/family values/social values/experiences) or even just your favourite flavour of icecream of favourite brand of soda.

Dustin_z yes it's a sex fetish... as is "sex with women" if you want to put it that way. If you're claiming that gay men don't love each other only because the physical act seems to be what's paramount to being gay (as in straight relationships) you're obviously delusional.

i 100% agree with everything you just said...
i think the fact that there are bi sexuals shows me that sexuality is a social construct... whats this theory called? differential association? or something like that

 

[Xayma]

katie_tully there are a wide number of instances of exclusive homosexuality in animals. Might I suggest you read the links I posted in my first post. In both cases (fetal development and genes that cause hyperheterosexuality in females) the number of homosexuals is offset by the larger number of surviving males/children that don't turn out gay.

Obviously if it made them 100% likely to be gay it wouldnt work but if it predispositions them (with probably some environmental impacts) then it could easily survive throughout the ages.

 

[ur_inner_child]

I dont want to sound like a homophobe, but I think homosexuality is a sex fetish to be honest.

The whole homosexual 'sex' thing doesn't seem based around love. I mean whats this fisting business? And that 'watersports' stuff? Thats not LOVE, its something totally different.

Yes, heterosexuals also do that stuff and again its a sexual fetish.

you've mixed it up

watersports = fetish

homosexuality = sexuality

you need to make a clear distinction between those. not all gay people engage in watersports. and i know homosexuals that INDEED love each other. I don't think you've been exposed to many homosexual couples, and they're not all sexually orientated like the media/stereotype makes them out to be. they act like "normal" couples who happen to be both male/female.

 

[Genesys]

I agree that your environment can influence your sexuality...however I also believe that some men/women are born with a natural tendancy towards homosexuality...

That would explain why some men try to go against it, marry and then years later decide that they have in fact been gay all their lives and have never wanted to admit it.

I have gay friends who believe that they were born as homosexuals and that their environment simply allowed them to express this because their sexual preferences were not oppressed

 

[loquasagacious]

Personally I think that a pre-disposition is established bio-chemically in the brain during pregnancy. This may be a strong pre-disposition or it may be a weak one. As a result sexuality occurs in graduations from heterosexuality to homosexuality.

Oh and in reply to the earlier comment that our bodies are evolved for the missioinary position thats actually incorrect. Until rather recently (in the evolutionary scheme of things) we procreated/recreated largely in the 'doggy-style' position. Perhaps the reason it is so often touted by cosmo and the like?

 

[LaraB]

I dont want to sound like a homophobe, but I think homosexuality is a sex fetish to be honest.

The whole homosexual 'sex' thing doesn't seem based around love. I mean whats this fisting business? And that 'watersports' stuff? Thats not LOVE, its something totally different.

Yes, heterosexuals also do that stuff and again its a sexual fetish.

um...dude, if heterosexuals and homosexuals do it how is it not based on love when it's homosexuals?

i'm not homosexual, but i know people who are... i don't agree with it but i understand why people do it... i don't believe though, that's its some genetically instilled thing...it is a choice. Yes there's environmental influences, but its not something that is determined for a person. they still can decide whether to act on certain influences etc

people are not slaves to their environment nor any other factor... all humans have cognitive processes which cause them to choose between what outcome will occur and how they will percieve a situation

its not like a child born with down syndrome of cerebal palsy or something...there isn't solid proof that there is a mutation or alteration or environemnt of conceptionl, pregnancy, birth or source of your genes pre-determines your sexuality.. and i believe that unless something is so stronly geneticially determined such as a serious illness etc you always have a choice in the outcome... especially in something that is a lifestyle choice as opposed to a survival choice.

 

[Royston]

Whee~ My two cents!

Firstly, to answer the question: "Choice or No? Disorder or No?"

I'm going to go ahead and say 'choice', because just like with religion and many other things out there, people have the undying ability to deny something no matter how strongly it is related to them. To a degree it is an impulse, but to an extent of that degree there is a point in any individual where they can stop and say, "Yes. I am gay."

I'm also going to go ahead and say 'disorder' but I think that's a very poor choice of words. Biologically, we reproduce male-to-female, not female-to-female or male-to-male. Homosexuality is not a 'natural' (again, a poor choice of words on my behalf. Excuse is, please) procedure in life. I agree with something along these lines:

Personally I think that a pre-disposition is established bio-chemically in the brain during pregnancy. This may be a strong pre-disposition or it may be a weak one. As a result sexuality occurs in graduations from heterosexuality to homosexuality.

Now, to ensure my following statements somewhat valid, I have met gay people before, but don’t think of them as meeting them as ‘someone who is gay’ (which I’ll explain in a moment). One of my closest friends is homosexual, and she’s very proud of it – to the point where I have met many others of the same sexual orientation. The thing is, I don’t see them as ‘gay people’ but rather as just ‘people’. A label is a very dangerous thing, and simply stereotyping others into such a category clouds judgment, and doesn’t let anyone see the real person behind it. I mean, my friend was still the same person the second she came out. But I know she has come across a few people who think differently, and it’s rather unfortunate, to be honest.

Dustin_z is a very good example of a person with clouded judgment. I mean, after reading his statement, it’s not only offensive, but uneducated. Really, why should people judge others, or in this case a group of others, based on a mixture of fiction, myths and extremities?

The problem with this issue is that it’s made an issue, and that people usually have a very limited view about it. Sure, compared to the past, people are more understanding about it, but really, in the end, why should topics like this be considered and questioned? At the end of the day all “gay people” are, are people.

Well… that’s it for my two cents. Just wanted to say something about this, really.

 

[Royston]

I have colour blindness.

Do I have the choice to deny it?

No. But then again, homosexuality isn't colour blindness and so the entire situation surrounding it is different.

Homosexuality is a natural occurance

It is, and it isn't. It's just there isn't a natural acceptance to it. The usual path for accepting homosexaulity (and this is generalized) is a long one, usually after a 'bisexual' phase. And then there is a lot of people that don't accept this part of themself, and choose to deny it until their dying day. It's these small facts that make me see it as a 'choice' rather then anything else, and I base my assumptions off facts.

If you are gay and proud of it, more power to you. I respect that, I really do. If I ever questioned my sexuality, I would never have the courage to come out like that. My views and opinion about it doesn't change, however.

 

[LaraB]

I have colour blindness.

Do I have the choice to deny it?

No matter what I do, I am hardwired that way.

Is it a disorder? perhaps you think of it that way - but I see YOUR eyesight as a disorder.

Homosexuality is a natural occurance - just like blonde hair. Lets kill blondes.

no...

what is viewed as a disorder is a straying from the norm of the natural process..

given most the population are not colour blind, and that those who are are so because of different,,i don't know if genes is the right word but u get what i mean... so yes, you may see other people with 'normal' site as a disorder but in medical/scientific terms it is not...

that'd just be like me saying i was born with a deformed right arm which does not look or function the way it should but i choose to say that everyone else has the disorder not me... its just illogical

if you are in the minority and everyoen else is accepted as the healthy or normal or usual or intended trait etc you can't just say that you are the norm because its not something you can just decide...

Homosexuality is not a physical trait so you can't compare a choice to ignore a physical trait to a choice to have a certain lifestyle

 

[Not-That-Bright]

But usually mental states are also put into the category of disorder... are u claiming that homosexuality isn't a mental state?

 

[absolution*]

Stupid people should let less-stupid people argue about issues which they are obviously and blatantly stupidly ignorant about.

 

[townie]

um...dude, if heterosexuals and homosexuals do it how is it not based on love when it's homosexuals?

i'm not homosexual, but i know people who are... i don't agree with it but i understand why people do it... i don't believe though, that's its some genetically instilled thing...it is a choice. Yes there's environmental influences, but its not something that is determined for a person. they still can decide whether to act on certain influences etc

people are not slaves to their environment nor any other factor... all humans have cognitive processes which cause them to choose between what outcome will occur and how they will percieve a situation

its not like a child born with down syndrome of cerebal palsy or something...there isn't solid proof that there is a mutation or alteration or environemnt of conceptionl, pregnancy, birth or source of your genes pre-determines your sexuality.. and i believe that unless something is so stronly geneticially determined such as a serious illness etc you always have a choice in the outcome... especially in something that is a lifestyle choice as opposed to a survival choice.

of course homosexual can choose not to act on their impluses, but why should we have to, sex impluses are as basic as a need for food or water, and nobody should have to choose not to act on basic impluses because it doesnt fit societies definition of right or wrong.
religion is the confounding factor here. if religion didnt condem homosexuality, neither would society, the 90% of people who are heterosexual could sustain population growth, removing the argument that the earth needs procreation. people dont choose to be heterosexual, nor do they choose to be homosexual, it's completley ingrained. if anything is a social construct, it's love (tho i believe that love, true love, is beyond the reach of society or science).

a minority of people are Aboriginal, do we say they have a disorder because they dont fit the "norm", and dont give me the argument that "but aboriginals being aboriginal doesnt affect their life e.g. ability to have children" it does affect their life, they die 30 years younger than anybody else, they have a low tolerance to alcohol etc. yet we dont label race a disorder. people with red hair are a minority, they get sunburned more easily, is redhair a disorder no? the only difference here is religon, that religion has imposed a moral prohibitation on homosexuality thus people think it's wrong, end of story