HSC Maths (1 Viewer)

MC24

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If you take Maths Advanced, Extension 1 and Extension 2 in Year 12, does Maths Advanced not count towards your ATAR?
 

MC24

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For some schools you don’t have to sit the internal advanced exams, for others they make you just in case you want to drop.
Wait so you can drop maths advanced but still take ext 1 and 2?
 

MC24

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You still attend the classes, you just don’t sit the test.

remember advanced is still assumed knowledge, so it’s not ‘dropped’
What if you take advanced and ext 1 only - do all three units count towards your atar (assuming you do well in both courses)?
 

Eagle Mum

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I don’t think it’s possible to sit all three exams in the same year because Adv Maths & Ext 2 are usually timetabled as simultaneous exam sessions. I wonder if anyone in this forum has sat the Adv Maths paper in an earlier grade and can advise whether the Adv Maths mark is automatically dropped from ATAR calculations as soon as the Ext 2 paper is attempted. My son is expecting that to happen next year when he sits the Ext 2 exam.
 
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beetree1

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What ezoolong said^ but skip the statistical analysis stuff Lmao
 

Eagle Mum

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What ezoolong said^ but skip the statistical analysis stuff Lmao
Unless of course you are thinking of doing Medicine (which a large percentage of the a Maths Ext 2 cohort will apply for I’ll wager) because statistics is about the only part of high school maths that will be used in a medical career (unfortunately).
 

ezOolong

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Unless of course you are thinking of doing Medicine (which a large percentage of the a Maths Ext 2 cohort will apply for I’ll wager) because statistics is about the only part of high school maths that will be used in a medical career (unfortunately).
Yes good to learn, understand and apply it, but no need to memorise how the formulas work!
 

Eagle Mum

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Yes good to learn, understand and apply it, but no need to memorise how the formulas work!
It’s never a good idea to memorise any formula. It’s always a good idea to understand how to apply it. Then, even if you can’t exactly recall a formula, as soon as you see it again, you know how to use it. I think that’s why I can still do Ext 2 maths after decades in a non maths career whereas my colleagues who all did well in 4U maths can barely help their kids with Yr 9 maths. Same goes for any acronyms to memorise lists BTW.
 

c8

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It’s never a good idea to memorise any formula. It’s always a good idea to understand how to apply it. Then, even if you can’t exactly recall a formula, as soon as you see it again, you know how to use it. I think that’s why I can still do Ext 2 maths after decades in a non maths career whereas my colleagues who all did well in 4U maths can barely help their kids with Yr 9 maths. Same goes for any acronyms to memorise lists BTW.
There really isn't much maths in medicine and if any, it'd be taught to the whole cohort because maths isn't a prerequisite for very many unis + a lot of students who didn't even take maths or non-standards who come from all sorts of careers make up medicine cohorts. I guess it is still nice to be able to teach your children maths after many years though.
 

ezOolong

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It’s never a good idea to memorise any formula. It’s always a good idea to understand how to apply it.
I agree wholeheartedly. For most formulas in maths and physics you can derive them.

Just that statistics is sometimes the exception!!! Some of the formulas are so wicked and based on some mathematical models (e.g. normal distribution general formula), so what I’m saying is don’t fret about the statistics formulas in 2U, but always try to remember everything in 3U!!
 

tito981

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I don’t think it’s possible to sit all three exams in the same year because Adv Maths & Ext 2 are usually timetabled as simultaneous exam sessions. I wonder if anyone in this forum has sat the Adv Maths paper in an earlier grade and can advise whether the Adv Maths mark is automatically dropped from ATAR calculations as soon as the Ext 2 paper is attempted. My son is expecting that to happen next year when he sits the Ext 2 exam (which is a bit of a gamble since he got 98 on the Adv paper but if he doesn’t get at least 98, he still has another year for a second attempt at Ext 2).
If your son takes ext 2 maths, he will have 4 units that will scale well, assuming he also does well in ext 1. If he takes Advanced and ext 1 only it will only be 3 units meaning he will need to take an additional extension course in some other subject or he takes another 2 unit course to reach 10 units which can take a great deal of time away from his other courses. What many students do is they take 12/13 units in year 11 with the intention of dropping 1 or 2, 2u courses after they pick up ext 2 math, this allows them to divided their time up for 10 units instead of 12/13.
 

Eagle Mum

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If your son takes ext 2 maths, he will have 4 units that will scale well, assuming he also does well in ext 1. If he takes Advanced and ext 1 only it will only be 3 units meaning he will need to take an additional extension course in some other subject or he takes another 2 unit course to reach 10 units which can take a great deal of time away from his other courses. What many students do is they take 12/13 units in year 11 with the intention of dropping 1 or 2, 2u courses after they pick up ext 2 math, this allows them to divided their time up for 10 units instead of 12/13.
Thanks for taking the time to post. He’ll probably end up completing 14 units with the four units of maths done by the end of Yr 11, so the workload is very comfortable for him unlike his poor older sister who did all 14 units plus advance maths all in Yr 12 (so it was like doing 15 units of work in a year) and they went at a slow pace in class to cater for the less able students. Sitting HSC subjects early isn’t something most public nonselective schools would cater for, therefore I negotiated these opportunities at our local school before I enrolled my younger kids so they’ve reaped the benefits of having an older sibling blaze a trail for them.
 
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Eagle Mum

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There really isn't much maths in medicine and if any, it'd be taught to the whole cohort because maths isn't a prerequisite for very many unis + a lot of students who didn't even take maths or non-standards who come from all sorts of careers make up medicine cohorts. I guess it is still nice to be able to teach your children maths after many years though.
I hadn’t meant to suggest that there was much maths in medicine but rather that the little maths that is applicable is all statistics. It was in response to a lighthearted post suggesting that students doing Adv Maths & Ext 2 could skip statistics.
 

D94

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I don’t think it’s possible to sit all three exams in the same year because Adv Maths & Ext 2 are usually timetabled as simultaneous exam sessions. I wonder if anyone in this forum has sat the Adv Maths paper in an earlier grade and can advise whether the Adv Maths mark is automatically dropped from ATAR calculations as soon as the Ext 2 paper is attempted.
I was in a similar position to your son - I had sat the 2U paper the year before, but then went on to do 4U. Once you sit the 4U paper, your 2U marks essentially disappear from your record.

On the UAC ATAR advice notice I received (caveat, this was 10 yrs ago), it stated: "Shown below are the ATAR courses which were available for inclusion in your ATAR, together with the units that were actually included in the calculation." Nowhere on the page does it show 2U maths, because the Board of Studies (now NESA), would not have submitted the 2U mark to UAC.

Additionally, I also sat 12 units in Yr 12, excluding the 2 units of Maths already completed in Yr 11, so it's not a case of not enough units.

My son is expecting that to happen next year when he sits the Ext 2 exam (which is a bit of a gamble since he got 98 on the Adv paper but if he doesn’t get at least 98, he still has another year for a second attempt at Ext 2).
Based on the 2020 UAC tables, he would 'only' need a 93 in 4U to be equivalent to the 98 received in 2U. I would say that if he is capable of 98 in 2U then a 93+ in 4U is quite achieveable.
 

Eagle Mum

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I was in a similar position to your son - I had sat the 2U paper the year before, but then went on to do 4U. Once you sit the 4U paper, your 2U marks essentially disappear from your record.

On the UAC ATAR advice notice I received (caveat, this was 10 yrs ago), it stated: "Shown below are the ATAR courses which were available for inclusion in your ATAR, together with the units that were actually included in the calculation." Nowhere on the page does it show 2U maths, because the Board of Studies (now NESA), would not have submitted the 2U mark to UAC.

Additionally, I also sat 12 units in Yr 12, excluding the 2 units of Maths already completed in Yr 11, so it's not a case of not enough units.
Based on the 2020 UAC tables, he would 'only' need a 93 in 4U to be equivalent to the 98 received in 2U. I would say that if he is capable of 98 in 2U then a 93+ in 4U is quite achieveable.
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I had already suspected that the 2U mark would be ineligible for inclusion in ATAR calculations once a student sits the 4U paper but it’s a bit rough that it just disappears from the student’s academic record. It is after all an achievement by the student. I’ll get my son to screenshot the entry before it disappears. 😁 I hope you were happy with your 4U mark.
 

D94

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Thanks for taking the time to reply. I had already suspected that the 2U mark would be ineligible for inclusion in ATAR calculations once a student sits the 4U paper but it’s a bit rough that it just disappears from the student’s academic record. It is after all an achievement by the student. I’ll get my son to screenshot the entry before it disappears. 😁 I hope you were happy with your 4U mark.
I'm not sure what occurs now, but back then, you would still receive a physical statement and record of achievement for all courses completed, even in the case of doing 2U and 4U - you would just be receiving them in different years. But yes, for the purposes of your ATAR, it's as if you never did the 2U course!
 

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