well conceivably you would want that 95+ to translate into some sort of degree? something which may perhaps have chem as a useful thing to know about (which is why I asked this question).
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I need urgent advice. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter v.tex
- Start date
Yeah i have been considering multiple degrees i want to pursue, many having chemistry as assumed knowledge
well 95 isnt really a high atar so you would be fine with earth lol
Yeah, tbh I was adament on switching to chemistry, just the doubt and recommendation of everyone I talk to has really put my idea down..
Idk whether I should listen to them- they could be on to something or just go with my flow.
Idk whether I should listen to them- they could be on to something or just go with my flow.
@v.tex, there are eight points that I would like to discuss. Hopefully considering them alongside everyone else's advice will help you make a final decision:
1. Established foundation versus unchartered territory:
In your case, both Earth and Environmental Science and Chemistry have advantages. EES is a subject that you are familiar with and confident with, and Chemistry is a subject that offers higher scaling. Depending on student circumstances, some advantages may be more important than others. In your particular case, it seems that the advantage of superior performance in EES would outweigh the superior scaling of Chemistry (there will be a bit more information about this below), primarily because you have established a solid foundation of knowledge and have a good understanding of your current level of performance in EES (including your strengths and areas of improvement). As such, you likely have a clearer vision in terms of starting the EES year 12 course which, if everything goes well, should translate to virtually guaranteed favourable performance in the subject. On the other hand, while you could definitely perform well in Chemistry, you have no previous results that you can refer to when making a decision, which makes Chemistry a slightly more uncertain option.
2. The nature of the ATAR:
It is important to keep in mind that the ATAR is determined through your performance in your best 10 units. Based on this, you must ensure that you do not allocate excessive study time towards any one subject, as this can lead to insufficient study for your other subjects, which can consequently put your performance in your other subjects at risk. In your case, the subject that you end up choosing must be one that does not present a negative impact on your other subjects. From previous posts, EES seems to allow for a reasonable balance, while this is an aspect that is harder to determine regarding Chemistry because you did not take the subject.
With that being said, since you are still in year 11, and none of your results counts towards your HSC results/ATAR at this stage, is it not still possible to use the time that you have before year 12 starts to finish catching up on the Chemistry year 11 course (and possibly gain a general idea of the year 12 course)?
3. Achieving a high ATAR:
It is important to stress that a high ATAR (including 95 and above) can be achieved with any subject combination, including EES and Chemistry. The 2023 UAC Scaling Report was mentioned in earlier posts. If we have a look at it, we can find that the highest ATAR achieved by a student where EES and Chemistry were counted as part of the best 10 units was significantly higher than 95. Specifically, the highest ATAR achieved by a student who took EES was 99.80, and the highest ATAR achieved by a student who took Chemistry was 99.95.
4. Individual subject contribution to your ATAR:
Whether you keep EES or take Chemistry, favourable performance in a subject will always mean that the subject will make a positive contribution to your ATAR. You simply need to be aware that a higher mark would be needed in a lower-scaling subject to match the ATAR contribution of a lower mark in a higher-scaling subject. An example of this would be Mathematics Standard and Mathematics Advanced, where an HSC mark of 80 in the former would typically result in a lower ATAR contribution compared to an HSC mark of 80 in the latter.
5. Your study interests beyond the HSC:
In your initial post, you mentioned that a reason that you want to take Chemistry is that it is relevant to your studies beyond the HSC. Here, you should consider the ATAR/selection rank requirements of the degrees that you are interested in. If your 95+ ATAR goal is simply a challenge, that is, if the degrees that you are interested in applying for all require an ATAR significantly lower than 95, perhaps you could take Chemistry and do your utmost to perform well throughout year 12.
Alternatively, if achieving your ATAR goal is very important to you, you could probably keep EES and do your best to perform well across your subjects, which would maximise your chances of reaching your desired ATAR. Chemistry is not treated as a prerequisite for relevant degrees but is treated as assumed knowledge. To address this, you could work on catching up on the Chemistry year 12 course after the HSC, which should be possible with commitment, and thanks to the wide range of study resources available for the subject.
6. Past cohort performance:
The performance of previous cohorts does not determine your own performance. Instead, it provides an indication of the potential academic capability of your cohort across your subjects and, along with the number of band 6's/E4's achieved, can help you determine the internal ranks that will likely be needed for your internal performance to be consistent with that band range. Past cohort performance should not deter you from taking a subject (this applies if you decide to take Chemistry).
7. Achieving a higher HSC mark in EES:
Essentially, an HSC mark that makes a greater ATAR contribution will be better than an HSC mark that makes a lower ATAR contribution, even if the latter was achieved in a subject that scales higher (in this case, Chemistry). We can use your example of achieving an HSC mark of 90 in EES compared to 80 in Chemistry. Suppose that you achieve an HSC mark of 90 in Physics, Economics and English Advanced, as well as an HSC mark of 45 in Mathematics Extension 1. UAC Compass estimates an ATAR of 95.95 with 80 in Chemistry, compared to 96.50 in EES.
8. Importance of proper decision-making:
Lastly, a good decision is one that is rational and informed. You have set yourself a certain ATAR goal (whether it be to meet the requirement of a particular university degree, or as a personal challenge). In addition to committing to your studies throughout year 12, maximising your chances of reaching your target ATAR will depend on the decisions that you make. As a general example, a student who keeps and continues to allocate study time towards a consistently lowest-performing subject simply because it is a backup subject (or another unimportant reason), instead of using that time to study for their other subjects (and perhaps dropping the low-performing subject), can prevent themselves from achieving their ATAR goal, making this an irrational decision.
I hope this helps!
1. Established foundation versus unchartered territory:
In your case, both Earth and Environmental Science and Chemistry have advantages. EES is a subject that you are familiar with and confident with, and Chemistry is a subject that offers higher scaling. Depending on student circumstances, some advantages may be more important than others. In your particular case, it seems that the advantage of superior performance in EES would outweigh the superior scaling of Chemistry (there will be a bit more information about this below), primarily because you have established a solid foundation of knowledge and have a good understanding of your current level of performance in EES (including your strengths and areas of improvement). As such, you likely have a clearer vision in terms of starting the EES year 12 course which, if everything goes well, should translate to virtually guaranteed favourable performance in the subject. On the other hand, while you could definitely perform well in Chemistry, you have no previous results that you can refer to when making a decision, which makes Chemistry a slightly more uncertain option.
2. The nature of the ATAR:
It is important to keep in mind that the ATAR is determined through your performance in your best 10 units. Based on this, you must ensure that you do not allocate excessive study time towards any one subject, as this can lead to insufficient study for your other subjects, which can consequently put your performance in your other subjects at risk. In your case, the subject that you end up choosing must be one that does not present a negative impact on your other subjects. From previous posts, EES seems to allow for a reasonable balance, while this is an aspect that is harder to determine regarding Chemistry because you did not take the subject.
With that being said, since you are still in year 11, and none of your results counts towards your HSC results/ATAR at this stage, is it not still possible to use the time that you have before year 12 starts to finish catching up on the Chemistry year 11 course (and possibly gain a general idea of the year 12 course)?
3. Achieving a high ATAR:
It is important to stress that a high ATAR (including 95 and above) can be achieved with any subject combination, including EES and Chemistry. The 2023 UAC Scaling Report was mentioned in earlier posts. If we have a look at it, we can find that the highest ATAR achieved by a student where EES and Chemistry were counted as part of the best 10 units was significantly higher than 95. Specifically, the highest ATAR achieved by a student who took EES was 99.80, and the highest ATAR achieved by a student who took Chemistry was 99.95.
4. Individual subject contribution to your ATAR:
Whether you keep EES or take Chemistry, favourable performance in a subject will always mean that the subject will make a positive contribution to your ATAR. You simply need to be aware that a higher mark would be needed in a lower-scaling subject to match the ATAR contribution of a lower mark in a higher-scaling subject. An example of this would be Mathematics Standard and Mathematics Advanced, where an HSC mark of 80 in the former would typically result in a lower ATAR contribution compared to an HSC mark of 80 in the latter.
5. Your study interests beyond the HSC:
In your initial post, you mentioned that a reason that you want to take Chemistry is that it is relevant to your studies beyond the HSC. Here, you should consider the ATAR/selection rank requirements of the degrees that you are interested in. If your 95+ ATAR goal is simply a challenge, that is, if the degrees that you are interested in applying for all require an ATAR significantly lower than 95, perhaps you could take Chemistry and do your utmost to perform well throughout year 12.
Alternatively, if achieving your ATAR goal is very important to you, you could probably keep EES and do your best to perform well across your subjects, which would maximise your chances of reaching your desired ATAR. Chemistry is not treated as a prerequisite for relevant degrees but is treated as assumed knowledge. To address this, you could work on catching up on the Chemistry year 12 course after the HSC, which should be possible with commitment, and thanks to the wide range of study resources available for the subject.
6. Past cohort performance:
The performance of previous cohorts does not determine your own performance. Instead, it provides an indication of the potential academic capability of your cohort across your subjects and, along with the number of band 6's/E4's achieved, can help you determine the internal ranks that will likely be needed for your internal performance to be consistent with that band range. Past cohort performance should not deter you from taking a subject (this applies if you decide to take Chemistry).
7. Achieving a higher HSC mark in EES:
Essentially, an HSC mark that makes a greater ATAR contribution will be better than an HSC mark that makes a lower ATAR contribution, even if the latter was achieved in a subject that scales higher (in this case, Chemistry). We can use your example of achieving an HSC mark of 90 in EES compared to 80 in Chemistry. Suppose that you achieve an HSC mark of 90 in Physics, Economics and English Advanced, as well as an HSC mark of 45 in Mathematics Extension 1. UAC Compass estimates an ATAR of 95.95 with 80 in Chemistry, compared to 96.50 in EES.
8. Importance of proper decision-making:
Lastly, a good decision is one that is rational and informed. You have set yourself a certain ATAR goal (whether it be to meet the requirement of a particular university degree, or as a personal challenge). In addition to committing to your studies throughout year 12, maximising your chances of reaching your target ATAR will depend on the decisions that you make. As a general example, a student who keeps and continues to allocate study time towards a consistently lowest-performing subject simply because it is a backup subject (or another unimportant reason), instead of using that time to study for their other subjects (and perhaps dropping the low-performing subject), can prevent themselves from achieving their ATAR goal, making this an irrational decision.
I hope this helps!
spiderfan44
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do keep in mind that uac doesnt publish every single raw mark and its corresponding scaled mark, it instead has the percentiles for what students got and the raw and scaled mark.
https://www.uac.edu.au/assets/documents/scaling-reports/scaling-report-2023-nsw-hsc.pdf check page 47
spiderfan44
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not necessarily. the higher you score, the less scaling effects you. plus you already have very high scaling subjects. also in general the amount of effort taken to get a 90 in ees is less than that needed to get that score in chem,
Yah tbh i don’t know if im prepared to forfeit my earth marks and class for a gamble.
Im gonna see if they let me to self study instead of my modern class so i can see how it goes up to the prelim. If i too good i will drop earth if i do bad i will drop chem, depending on if they let me do this or not
Im gonna see if they let me to self study instead of my modern class so i can see how it goes up to the prelim. If i too good i will drop earth if i do bad i will drop chem, depending on if they let me do this or not
Earth doesnt scale terribly. Its actually on the higher end. Not Chemistry level but way above all non-economics humanity subjects
spiderfan44
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iloveeggs
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yo you are right lmao
btw @v.tex here is is the relevant part of the scaling report so you dont have to take peoples word for it. this table in particular shows the percentiles of student scores and the raw and scaled marks they achieved. it also shows mean and max marks of each course. both chem and earth are on this one page however you can go to https://www.uac.edu.au/assets/documents/scaling-reports/scaling-report-2023-nsw-hsc.pdf to see the original. plenty more info that you can use to make a decision there
WeiWeiMan
Well-Known Member
BREAK EVEN POINT ISNT REAL (at least the rubix guy interpretation of it is cooked)
if you’re looking at the UAC report, you may have realised that basically every single subject bar 3u and 4u maths technically scales down no matter what mark you get (unless 99th percentile maybe)
chem scales well bruv
WeiWeiMan
Well-Known Member
they are wrong bruv (break even point aint even a real thing unless she's defining it in a way convenient to her argument)
the table shows HSC marks, not raw marks
when you receive HSC marks, those are aligned to performance bands and hsc marks via blah blah blah and linear interpolation
unless you pay or ask your teacher you don't get ur raw marks
raw mark to aligned mark is known as alignment and you can roughly figure it out based on info from https://rawmarks.info/
alignment is highly variable from year to yearas the exam difficulty is highly variable from year to year
HSC -> scaled is known as SCALING which is used to determine shit for atar
[technically scaling is raw -> scaled but that doesn't rly matter here]
liamkk112
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if i was you i’d just go for it, you seem really interested in chem and you’re clearly willing to put in the effort to succeed there