IDF Flotilla Incident Official Thread (2 Viewers)

Rothbard

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Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

m8, bring it. tomorrow 12:00 library lawn, I'm da big black guy.
it's on like donkey kong m8

M8

CHEERS CUNT
 

kaka23q

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Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

i dont understand how anyone can defend the actions of the israeli defence force when they clearly had no right to board the aid ships in the first place
 
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Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

m8, bring it. tomorrow 12:00 library lawn, I'm da big black guy.
fuck yeah im coming, cant wate to smash the cunt, black pride.
Im the big black guy too, 6ft1, and full of black meat.
Fuck nolan you are fucking dead if u come haha
 
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Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

i'm 100% certain the fact that they were in international waters isn't in dispute, dude.


I'm sick of trolling, this is too serious a topic to dismiss with rhetoric.

Israel is getting completely out of hand, in an international sense and now that the obama administration is in power in the whitehouse, the extreme rabbinic right is trying to see how far they can push the international community whilst still having us support.

Cast lead was a disgrace as well, as is the blockade. Israel has a reasonable right to search and seize weapons going into gaza and the west bank, but also has a reasonable responsibility to not kill gazans and palestinians willy nilly. Israel's constant overreaction to everything that seems even slightly pro palestinian and their insane reaction to criticism, labelling it as anti-semitic is beyond ridiculous.

They are acting in the manner of a rogue state, and were they not our allies our politicians would be up in arms about this disgrace. Though this was a staged photo-op most likely by palestinian sympathisers, israel has given hamas' claims far more substance when they've proven they will attack a convoy of what appears to be mostly humanitarian aid workers and the like.

Just like cast lead was a chance for the rabbinic right to seize popular power before the end of gwb's reign and the knesset elections, this is another gratuitous use of unacceptable force motivated entirely by a self-satisfactory insane zionism that seems to be infecting israel's parliament and public sentiment each and every day.

Whilst i'd err on the side of caution in promoting the views put forward by that particularly right-wing member of the knesset that said the british were dogs, saying that that was probably a sound bite used to cast aspersions against israelis as a whole the primary issue faced by both sides is the insane religious radicalisation.

The rabbinic right are engaged in an insane form of zionism that sees all of the land from the nile to the euphrates as theirs, and wants to conform with biblical prophecy. Fortunately these are powerful but still minority elements within israel, particularly held in ultra-orthodox circles. However this minority has still had a pernicious impact on israel's overall response to the gazan situation and the situation of palestine, showing little to no care for the gazans and palestinians, in the pursuit of a no-tolerance policy of terrorism.

The other side is equally wrong, though pushed into that situation through what they see as necessity as no other alternative has worked. The palestinians elected hamas after a brutal period of infighting (and yes hamas was created by the israelis to fight fatah and stop stable government competing with israel) and a brutal series of attacks from israel. Hamas' charter does not recognise the state of israel and thus peace talks have broken down on both sides. The peace that may have been achieved in the late nineties is now a fairy tale because of the state of both parties.

Israel has been given carte blanche to do basically whatever they want through the whims of the american religious right and the american neocons. There is also a degree of western sympathy for the israelis, they have every justification to have a fortress mentality due to being constantly under attack, but that mentality has turned into a severe malignancy infecting their overall policies and has lead to them performing acts that no society which dared to call itself a 'western democracy' would consider acceptable.

The two parties in this debate are fairly straightfoward, you have the insane ultra-zionists to whom israel can do no wrong, and the somewhat crazed conspiracy theorists or supremely pro-palestinian individuals who think that israel has no right to exist and there is somewhat of a global control on how people see israel. Sure israel does engage in counter-intelligence operations and attempts to spin what is going on continuously, but the same can be said for the palestinians. This was a pr stunt by hamas and they would almost certainly be delighted that it was attacked by israel because it allows them to push forward their point that israel is acting as a rogue nation outside of the limitations of international law.

The final point is that international law is completely fucking arbitrary and really doesn't come into this. Countries are impossible to bind to international law, particularly countries such as the us and israel, and we should not recognise any form of international court because it would be highly affected by political posturing and movement by the big un security council powers. The most effective way to peace in the region is a minimisation of the radical sentiment, put forward by the youth on both sides. Now this is particularly difficult in the case of young individuals who are pro palestinian because they are absolutely horrified at what israel is doing to gaza and the west bank every single day.

It is incredibly difficult to separate yourself from the chaos emotionally and start making moderate points. If your family or people you know or even people you identify with are attacked indiscriminately because of where they choose to live, it makes sense to want revenge and to fight back, but it's obvious that the fight is one sided, if you attack israel with force they are going to destroy you with superior weapons and technology. It's just how this works, they have the funding and backing of the world's biggest superpowers, and even though hamas is working with hezbollah and the iranians, they will not be able to compete in any way through force be it using different tactics or weapons. Their only real chance of landing any damage on israel is through a nuclear arsenal, and if their chosen destination is martyrdom, well they'll certainly get it in response to a nuclear attack on israeli soil. Israel's nuclear arsenal is the world's worst kept secret, and they certainly will not hesitate to use it to destroy most of the middle east in retaliation to an attack on their soil, fuck the consequences. If they're acting this insane in response to a few rockets (albeit ones aimed at civilians), their response to a nuclear assault will be so utterly unimaginable it is something neither side should ponder for too long.

Though it is obvious that the growing pr campaign against israeli aggression is starting to take hold, even nations such as australia that would have been 'waiting for the facts' under a howard government have taken action to expel diplomats because of the passport scandal and now the attacks on the flotilla. Western nations are starting to stand up against israel's continued attacks against civilians and are starting to want answers.

Now there are two ways that this can go, the first is towards a peace process, to those who are anti israel, get the idea of the state of israel being dissolved out of your mind, there is no power on this earth that can make this happen, and israel is too integrated with western powers to have this ever be a possibility regardless of the armaments or power of middle-eastern states. The west is decades ahead of you in weapons and technology, and whilst you may technically have more manpower, that's just grist for the grinder. The most likely outcome is potentially a land resettlement deal with reparations paid to israelis to sell their land to palestinians through a third party funding source. The only people who could possibly oppose this would be insanely zionist jews, so again, given the current makeup of the knesset, this is still a long way off.

But for those spouting rhetoric of a dissolved israel and a fully free palestine, again, the path that this can take is an all out war between egypt, israel, syria, lebanon and potentially iran and even afghani soldiers. (potentially even iraqis though, i honestly doubt it after the american occupation). The uk, australia, france, germany and all of nato with the exception of the us will choose to not intervene. The us will support the israelis with weapons and manpower if it turns into an all out war, and the possibility of a nuclear strike is quite substantial. The us wants to guard their 'example democracy' in the middle east, and would be almost certain to cut ties with nations without supplies of oil if they can negotiate deals with russia to allow for an attack on these middle-eastern states.

Again were we to factor energy independence into the equation for the us (which is unlikely given the power of oil cartels), the odds are even higher, meaning the us will back israel unconditionally regardless of how the russians and the saudis react.

Tl;dr - israel is acting like a complete fuckwit because they've gone mental under the fortress mentality, so have the palestinians. Both have started electing crazy religious fundamentalists. Both sides are fucked. Only young kids who are moderate on both sides can stop the slide. Put ideas of israel 'going away' out of your head, the west and israel have superior weapons, firepower and tactics. Any nuclear attack on israel will almost certainly end with a nuclear retaliation all throughout the middle east. If there is all out war the us will support israel wholeheartedly and the us/israeli coalition will win.

Any questions?
everyone save this quote please to their computer
 
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Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

even that spinless ponce Kevin Rudd has called for the blockade to be lifted.

*prays to Allah that this is the beggining of the end of Israel*
 

arcticdbk

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Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

I'm 100% certain the fact that they were in International Waters isn't in dispute, dude.


I'm sick of trolling, this is too serious a topic to dismiss with rhetoric.

Israel is getting completely out of hand, in an international sense and now that the Obama administration is in power in the whitehouse, the extreme rabbinic right is trying to see how far they can push the international community whilst still having US support.

Cast Lead was a disgrace as well, as is the blockade. Israel has a reasonable right to search and seize weapons going into gaza and the west bank, but also has a reasonable responsibility to not kill gazans and Palestinians willy nilly. Israel's constant overreaction to everything that seems even slightly pro Palestinian and their insane reaction to criticism, labelling it as Anti-Semitic is beyond ridiculous.

They are acting in the manner of a rogue state, and were they not our allies our politicians would be up in arms about this disgrace. Though this was a staged photo-op most likely by Palestinian sympathisers, Israel has given Hamas' claims far more substance when they've proven they will attack a convoy of what appears to be mostly humanitarian aid workers and the like.

Just like Cast Lead was a chance for the rabbinic right to seize popular power before the end of GWB's reign and the Knesset elections, this is another gratuitous use of unacceptable force motivated entirely by a self-satisfactory insane zionism that seems to be infecting Israel's parliament and public sentiment each and every day.

Whilst I'd err on the side of caution in promoting the views put forward by that particularly right-wing member of the Knesset that said the British were dogs, saying that that was probably a sound bite used to cast aspersions against Israelis as a whole the primary issue faced by both sides is the insane religious radicalisation.

The Rabbinic right are engaged in an insane form of Zionism that sees all of the land from the Nile to the Euphrates as theirs, and wants to conform with biblical prophecy. Fortunately these are powerful but still minority elements within Israel, particularly held in Ultra-Orthodox circles. However this minority has still had a pernicious impact on Israel's overall response to the Gazan situation and the situation of Palestine, showing little to no care for the Gazans and Palestinians, in the pursuit of a no-tolerance policy of terrorism.

The other side is equally wrong, though pushed into that situation through what they see as necessity as no other alternative has worked. The Palestinians elected Hamas after a brutal period of infighting (and yes Hamas was created by the Israelis to fight Fatah and stop stable government competing with Israel) and a brutal series of attacks from Israel. Hamas' charter does not recognise the state of Israel and thus peace talks have broken down on both sides. The peace that may have been achieved in the late nineties is now a fairy tale because of the state of both parties.

Israel has been given carte blanche to do basically whatever they want through the whims of the American religious right and the American neocons. There is also a degree of western sympathy for the Israelis, they have every justification to have a fortress mentality due to being constantly under attack, but that mentality has turned into a severe malignancy infecting their overall policies and has lead to them performing acts that no society which dared to call itself a 'western democracy' would consider acceptable.

The two parties in this debate are fairly straightfoward, you have the insane ultra-zionists to whom Israel can do no wrong, and the somewhat crazed conspiracy theorists or supremely pro-palestinian individuals who think that Israel has no right to exist and there is somewhat of a global control on how people see Israel. Sure Israel does engage in counter-intelligence operations and attempts to spin what is going on continuously, but the same can be said for the Palestinians. This was a PR stunt by Hamas and they would almost certainly be delighted that it was attacked by Israel because it allows them to push forward their point that Israel is acting as a rogue nation outside of the limitations of International Law.

The final point is that International Law is completely fucking arbitrary and really doesn't come into this. Countries are impossible to bind to international law, particularly countries such as the US and Israel, and we should not recognise any form of international court because it would be highly affected by political posturing and movement by the big UN Security Council powers. The most effective way to peace in the region is a minimisation of the radical sentiment, put forward by the youth on both sides. Now this is particularly difficult in the case of young individuals who are pro Palestinian because they are absolutely horrified at what Israel is doing to Gaza and the West Bank every single day.

It is incredibly difficult to separate yourself from the chaos emotionally and start making moderate points. If your family or people you know or even people you identify with are attacked indiscriminately because of where they choose to live, it makes sense to want revenge and to fight back, but it's obvious that the fight is one sided, if you attack Israel with force they are going to destroy you with superior weapons and technology. It's just how this works, they have the funding and backing of the world's biggest superpowers, and even though Hamas is working with Hezbollah and the Iranians, they will not be able to compete in any way through force be it using different tactics or weapons. Their only real chance of landing any damage on Israel is through a nuclear arsenal, and if their chosen destination is martyrdom, well they'll certainly get it in response to a nuclear attack on Israeli soil. Israel's nuclear arsenal is the world's worst kept secret, and they certainly will not hesitate to use it to destroy most of the middle east in retaliation to an attack on their soil, fuck the consequences. If they're acting this insane in response to a few rockets (albeit ones aimed at civilians), their response to a nuclear assault will be so utterly unimaginable it is something neither side should ponder for too long.

Though it is obvious that the growing PR campaign against Israeli aggression is starting to take hold, even nations such as Australia that would have been 'waiting for the facts' under a Howard government have taken action to expel diplomats because of the passport scandal and now the attacks on the flotilla. Western Nations are starting to stand up against Israel's continued attacks against civilians and are starting to want answers.

Now there are two ways that this can go, the first is towards a peace process, to those who are anti Israel, get the idea of the state of Israel being dissolved out of your mind, there is no power on this earth that can make this happen, and Israel is too integrated with Western Powers to have this ever be a possibility regardless of the armaments or power of Middle-Eastern states. The West is decades ahead of you in weapons and technology, and whilst you may technically have more manpower, that's just grist for the grinder. The most likely outcome is potentially a land resettlement deal with reparations paid to Israelis to sell their land to Palestinians through a third party funding source. The only people who could possibly oppose this would be insanely zionist jews, so again, given the current makeup of the knesset, this is still a long way off.

But for those spouting rhetoric of a dissolved israel and a fully free Palestine, again, the path that this can take is an all out war between Egypt, Israel, Syria, Lebanon and potentially Iran and even Afghani soldiers. (Potentially even Iraqis though, I honestly doubt it after the American occupation). The UK, Australia, France, Germany and all of NATO with the exception of the US will choose to not intervene. The US will support the Israelis with weapons and manpower if it turns into an all out war, and the possibility of a nuclear strike is quite substantial. The US wants to guard their 'example democracy' in the middle east, and would be almost certain to cut ties with nations without supplies of oil if they can negotiate deals with Russia to allow for an attack on these middle-eastern states.

Again were we to factor energy independence into the equation for the US (Which is unlikely given the power of oil cartels), the odds are even higher, meaning the US will back Israel unconditionally regardless of how the Russians and the Saudis react.

TL;DR - Israel is acting like a complete fuckwit because they've gone mental under the fortress mentality, so have the palestinians. Both have started electing crazy religious fundamentalists. Both sides are fucked. Only young kids who are moderate on both sides can stop the slide. Put ideas of Israel 'going away' out of your head, the west and Israel have superior weapons, firepower and tactics. Any nuclear attack on Israel will almost certainly end with a nuclear retaliation all throughout the middle east. if there is all out war the US will support Israel wholeheartedly and the US/Israeli coalition will win.

Any questions?
I really don't understand why you troll when you could give quality answers like this.
 
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Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

is this subject somehow funny to you?
 
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Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

I really don't understand why you troll when you could give quality answers like this.
trolling can be fun, but like rothbard says - this subject is too serious to not give at least one serious reply.

what's scary is that there are people on this website - like kwayera - who aren't trolling.
 

arcticdbk

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Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

trolling can be fun, but like rothbard says - this subject is too serious to not give at least one serious reply.

what's scary is that there are people on this website - like kwayera - who aren't trolling.
Yes, I know trolling can be fun, trust me. But Rothbard's trolling was extremely overboard and seemed really genuine. Also, trolling this issue is plain stupid.

Anybody who genuinely supports Israel should spend a day in Gaza under siege.
 
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Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

anyone who supports israel is one of the following:

a) a zionist (eg: kwayera, vic alhadeff)
b) an idiot (eg: steve price)
c) seriously misinformed (eg: ???)
 
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Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

http://jewishnews.net.au/

Check out the distinct LACK OF COVERAGE on the australian jewish news website

the link to the story is somewhere down the bottom of the page. and people want to tell me that australian jews, by and large, don't support israel? of course they do.
 

Aryanbeauty

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Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

anyone who supports israel is one of the following:

a) a zionist (eg: kwayera, vic alhadeff)
b) an idiot (eg: steve price)
c) seriously misinformed (eg: ???)
The death of 9 terrorist supporter is as important as the death of a housefly in my humble opinion. I hoped Israel secretly sunk the ship to kill the 700 passengers to teach them a lesson or two. :angel:
 
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Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

wikipedia said:
NATO is holding an emergency meeting on June 1, 2010 in response to the attack.[6] Turkey is a NATO signatory, and Article 5 of the NATO charter states that armed attacks against one or more NATO members in Europe or North America will be considered an attack against all of them, and each will take action (including the possibility of armed force) "to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area." Article 6 explicitly mentions the Mediterranean Sea as a location for where attacks will trigger responses.[7]
:uhoh:
 

Rothbard

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Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

anyone who supports israel is one of the following:

a) a zionist (eg: kwayera, vic alhadeff)
b) an idiot (eg: steve price)
c) seriously misinformed (eg: ???)
Not entirely the case, there's a difference between blindly supporting Israel in everything that it does and erring on the side of Israel versus say Hamas in overall claims.

In this instance it's obvious that Israel substantially overreacted and played the situation out exactly as Hamas wanted it to be played out, drawing a large amount of attention to how Israel reacts with insane amounts of force in these situations.

I'm loathe to jump to conclusions about what happened in the situation, but I'd say that even if the Israelis were attacked first with knives and axes or whatever, non-lethal or similar force should be used rather than spraying the boat with assault weapons fire.

Again, what is important in these debates and what makes these debates beneficial is being reasonable about the content. Are all Israelis 'bloodthirsty', of course not. Are all Palestinians 'terrorists', absolutely not.

The minority in both situations are the individuals who are causing all of these problems, the main issue is that it appears the fanatic minority is in control of policy on both sides of the fence.
 

Rothbard

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Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

Also Cat (Kwayera) is generally pro-Israel because most Young Liberals are pro-Israel. That said she is intelligent enough to be amenable to evidence that is calmly cited and presented, rather than pointed at in a histrionic fashion whilst calling Israelis bloodthirsty.

If you really want to have an impact on how this event is seen throuhgout the world, sign up for an account on wikipedia and tidy up the flotilla article or add references in. Don't bias the article, just link to other articles and cite sources.

Keep your language moderate and try to keep emotions out of it. Approach it from a logical standpoint and you'll get a lot further.
 
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Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

i can agree with that

edit: i think that the violent, emotional reaction at this time is justified though and achieves more for an anti israeli stance than would a calm response - at this time.
 

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Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

I just hope this stops the wests (especially USA) unquestionable support of Israel no matter what it does.
 

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Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

I just hope this stops the wests (especially USA) unquestionable support of Israel no matter what it does.
Me too. What would it take for America to end its support for Israel? If Americans were killed on the vessels, this could have opened up something different...

Not that I want anybody dead, just being hypothetical.
 

Rothbard

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Re: Jesus fucking Christ - IDF massacres Turks on board humanitarian ship

I just hope this stops the wests (especially USA) unquestionable support of Israel no matter what it does.
No chance of that happening whilst AIPAC is such a huge lobbying force in both the Democratic and Republican parties.

Democratic party because of a fairly large Jewish voting bloc, Republicans because of the 'National Security' NeoCon types and the Religious "Israel is needed for the second coming" types.

The only thing that was really supposed to stop their support of Israel (at least monetarily) would have been their recession and debt, but it seems that it would take the US going absolutely bankrupt before they even questioned the levels of aid they send to Israel.
 

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