Is chess a sport? (1 Viewer)

Is chess a sport?


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SylviaB

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Not my logic. I'm merely following an officially recognised definition of chess.
No, the idea that mental fitness is an example of physical fitness IS your logic. It is not found anywhere within the definition of chess.

Also, you're trying to make it look like as if I'm saying things I didn't actually say. I never said "Any intellectual pursuit is a sport".
I never said you said it...I literally said "by your logic". It means I'm showing something that would be true using your logic to show why its wrong.
 

SylviaB

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In competitive chess you cannot 'tell someone to make your move'.
No, dumb dumb, I'm saying you COULD change the rules of chess to make it play like this, and NOTHING meaningful would change about the game, because the point of chess is decision making, not muscular exertion.

Additionally, you move your arm to press your side of the chess timer as well as move your pieces with the use of your intellectual knowledge in the game.
This has nothing to do with chess ability though. You don't win by moving your arm the best, you win by making better decisions than your opponent. In other sports you make decisions but you need a coordinated series of muscle contractions to make the decision actually play out.

In golf, I can "decide" to go long onto the green over the trees...but I can only do that if I swing the club with the right speed and trajectory. Almost all of the skill is carrying out decision, and you can even have your caddy help the make the decisions for you. Because the skill is actually in the muscular contractions in executing the shot.

In chess, anybody can move knight to e7, there's literally no skill involved in doing that whatsoever. The skill is DECIDING to move knight to e7. Once the decision has been made, it takes no physical skill to carry out that decision and nobody wins chess because of their ability to physically move the pieces around the board better than their opponent.

Also by this logic, online chess either isn't a sport, or, anything that involves clicking a mouse is a sport. See how dumb this is?

This means there is both a physical and mental decision making. In other words, your argument doesn't make sense.
There isn't a physical aspect though. Is poker a sport, because I move the chips from my stack into the middle of table? Exact same shit. It isn't a skill, it's a standard procedural movement to display to everyone what your DECISION was.[/quote][/quote]
 
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SylviaB

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Chess isn't a sport. The actual gameplay itself is not dependent on physical exertion. There are mechanical movements that need to be made, but these are merely to display the decision you have made. Skill in chess has nothing to do with these physical movements, you don't beat somebody because you're better at physically moving the pieces around the board, you win by making decisions. The physical act of moving knight to e7 didn't win you the game because your physical exertion was better than your opponent, it's because your decision to move that piece there was the right decision.

Imagine if/when we can hook up cables to your brain and you can mentally decide what move to make without moving a muscle. Is this no longer chess? Has the game fundamentally changed? Of course it hasn't. The point of chess is the decisions of where to move pieces. Once the decision is made, the execution of that decision is a mere logistical exercise, not one of physical skill.

Is an essay writing competition a sport? After all, the act of writing or typing out your essay with your hands is "physical exertion". Of course it's not a sport though, because the point of the essay writing is to mentally come up with the words and sentences that go into your essay. You can dictate it and have someone else type it up and it has done literally nothing to affect the skill level required to win the competition. It's just logistics.
 

Qeru

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Chess isn't a sport. The actual gameplay itself is not dependent on physical exertion. There are mechanical movements that need to be made, but these are merely to display the decision you have made. Skill in chess has nothing to do with these physical movements, you don't beat somebody because you're better at physically moving the pieces around the board, you win by making decisions. The physical act of moving knight to e7 didn't win you the game because your physical exertion was better than your opponent, it's because your decision to move that piece there was the right decision.

Imagine if/when we can hook up cables to your brain and you can mentally decide what move to make without moving a muscle. Is this no longer chess? Has the game fundamentally changed? Of course it hasn't. The point of chess is the decisions of where to move pieces. Once the decision is made, the execution of that decision is a mere logistical exercise, not one of physical skill.

Is an essay writing competition a sport? After all, the act of writing or typing out your essay with your hands is "physical exertion". Of course it's not a sport though, because the point of the essay writing is to mentally come up with the words and sentences that go into your essay. You can dictate it and have someone else type it up and it has done literally nothing to affect the skill level required to win the competition. It's just logistics.
You know what I actually agree with you for once, this is the first time you actually made a decent argument.
 

Qeru

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But what about stuff like Poker and other card games. these are also considered sports yet involve no physical exertion?
 

idkkdi

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But what about stuff like Poker and other card games. these are also considered sports yet involve no physical exertion?
no.

draw the line at large amounts of non-negligible movement.

blurring of the lines is horrendously easy, and creates a domino effect.
 

idkkdi

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True.
But looking at the current statistics, it can be proven based on people's opinions that chess can be considered a sport even though it may not be in a logical sense...
political correctness makes people say stuff to not be bothered with arguments.

Similarly, there might be more homophobic people than statistics would let on.

i will not argue these pointless issues any further. Unanswerable, undefinable and pointless.
 
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SylviaB

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But what about stuff like Poker and other card games. these are also considered sports yet involve no physical exertion?
They're not considered sports though?
 

nilatar

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Esports are justified as a sport, hence Chess. Sports require physical and/or mental exertion, and and usually include spectators. Chess is a sport that incorporates these facets. Whilst the traditional definition of 'sport' has been limited to 'an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment', it only makes sense to make this definition more inclusive, hence putting it into a modern context would justify chess / Esports as a sport. Logically, chess is indeed a sport.

Edit: There's no point in dissecting the definition of a sport and applying the generic criteria to chess like SylviaB attempted, definitions evolve, and quite frankly, this one has whether you like it or not.
 

Paradoxica

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everything that has been posted here is irrelevant

the aspect of chess that makes it sport-like is the fandom and the audience/culture that is created around the elite players

commentators, supporters, etc.

just like any other e-sport
 

nilatar

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everything that has been posted here is irrelevant

the aspect of chess that makes it sport-like is the fandom and the audience/culture that is created around the elite players

commentators, supporters, etc.

just like any other e-sport
Well said. That's the most defining factor, the spectator element of chess.

And that's a verdict, folks.
Gravy!
 

SylviaB

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Esports are justified as a sport, hence Chess.
Esports are categorically different to chess. Esports require coordinated physical exertion to achieve a result, chess does not. Chess is PURELY decision making. Any physical movements (like clicking on the square you want to move your piece to) are purely logistical in nature, not skill-based. E-sports involve timed, coordinated physical hand movements to carry out an action, and success in e-sports is entirely dependent n you being able to move your hands in the right way. Chess isn't. It's purely decision making.

Sports require physical and/or mental exertion, and and usually include spectators. Chess is a sport that incorporates these facets.
WRONG

WRONG

WRONG

Oxford Dictionary defines sport as "an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or a team competes against another or others for entertainment"

Mental exertion is not sufficient for something to be a sport.


Whilst the traditional definition of 'sport' has been limited to 'an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment', it only makes sense to make this definition more inclusive, hence putting it into a modern context would justify chess / Esports as a sport. Logically, chess is indeed a sport.
So basically, you acknowledge that the definition of sport doesn't include chess, but then you just hand wave it away and simply declare that chess is a sport.

Like I said, Esports are categorically different to chess. The fact that esports are counted as sports is completely irrelevant to chess, because they're two, totally different things.
 
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SylviaB

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everything that has been posted here is irrelevant

the aspect of chess that makes it sport-like is the fandom and the audience/culture that is created around the elite players

commentators, supporters, etc.

just like any other e-sport
That's completely moronic. That isn't what defines a sport. That isn't why e-sports are sports.

All kinds of stuff has a fandom and a spectators. What next, poker is a sport? Scrabble is a sport? Essay writing competitions are a sport?

Without an element of physical exertion, it isn't a sport. If you can have a sport without physical exertion, then the very concept of "sport" becomes entirely meaningless.
 

nilatar

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Esports are categorically different to chess. Esports require coordinated physical exertion to achieve a result, chess does not. Chess is PURELY decision making. Any physical movements (like clicking on the square you want to move your piece to) are purely logistical in nature, not skill-based. E-sports involve timed, coordinated physical hand movements to carry out an action, and success in e-sports is entirely dependent n you being able to move your hands in the right way. Chess isn't. It's purely decision making.



WRONG

WRONG

WRONG

Oxford Dictionary defines sport as "an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or a team competes against another or others for entertainment"

Mental exertion is not sufficient for something to be a sport.




So basically, you acknowledge that the definition of sport doesn't include chess, but then you just hand wave it away and simply declare that chess is a sport.

Like I said, Esports are categorically different to chess. The fact that esports are counted as sports is completely irrelevant to chess, because they're two, totally different things.
[Insert clown emoji here]
 

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