is it 'illegal' to have my detective as the killer?! (1 Viewer)

[lilkatie]

Ok so I have to write a cf story idea is:
A lady comes and says 'can you find out who killed my husband'
Detective goes to crime site and in the end he kills someone else and you find out it was actually him who killed the husband as well
Is this a bad idea as it is so 'anti conventional'?
What conventions should i put in so it looks like i know the genre?
thanks for help

 

[waterbottle]

as long as you can pull off the idea of subverting the conventions (eg instead of having a detective with morals and ethics you have a murderer) then it shouldn't be a problem. but don't just use that concept because it's different if you haven't thought about what you really need to show in a response (that you understand and can play with the conventions).

 

[lilkatie]

thanks =)

any other comments from anyone

 

[Dreamerish*~]

thanks =)

any other comments from anyone

NO.

My crime fiction teacher told us to never pull that trick. It's unoriginal, and could spoil a great build-up of suspension.

 

[waterbottle]

it COULD do that, but if she pulls it off well it COULD be a great story. it really depends on how she executes the plan. a good subversion of conventions will gain marks, if it's done properly.

 

[Dreamerish*~]

True. If it's generally very well written, then it won't count against her.

However, if you could come up with an alternative, it would be best to avoid using these types of clichés.

 

[mossup]

hmmm....if it was written in 2nd person the suspense could be all the same. just don't make it too eliptical.

 

[lilkatie]

Oh well I will try it in my assess task tomorrow!
Trust me it is a good story (I think)..I just wasn't sure if you were allowed to subvert your stories that much
Thanks for help guys

Oh is it cliched? I wanted to do it as I thought it was original??

 

[glitterfairy]

Trust me - nothing under the sun is sacred anymore

 

[lilkatie]

Well it paid off and I got 94 for my illegal killer detective
My teacher said that to get a high mark you had to have a twist, and get into the pysche

 

[Shanan]

Congrats Katie..... i am a true believer that originality = gold in this subject, take risks, trust yourself and above all have fun with it all. Well done again, your obviously a talented writter....

 

[know_it_all]

i did it in my half yearly..
as long as it works for the story
dun jst do it for the sake of doing it
but by all means, be creative!
experiment with it

 

[nerd_it_up]

detective as killer

didn't Stoppard do that in Real Inspector Hound???
wasn't the disabled man Magnus, also the real inspector hound....And the theatre critic Puckeridge who ends up killing both of the other theatre critics - moon and birdboot?.....why is stoppard such a retard? or im probably just not getting his ideas and plot.....

 

[taxman]

didn't Stoppard do that in Real Inspector Hound???
wasn't the disabled man Magnus, also the real inspector hound....And the theatre critic Puckeridge who ends up killing both of the other theatre critics - moon and birdboot?.....why is stoppard such a retard? or im probably just not getting his ideas and plot.....

'Hound' was never written to be taken seriously (the ending even more so.) For 'Hound' you have to look a bit more closely at the themes, issues and conventions associated with Crime Fiction. The ending is pretty much just a surreal mess tying in with the theme of identity that runs through the play. Who ends up being who is not important.

IMO, 'Hound' is a terrible text to be set for Crime Fiction...I think it's an excellent play, but centrally the play is about identity and over analysis, not so much Crime Fiction.

 

[bigwillz]

I think it's an excellent play, but centrally the play is about identity and over analysis, not so much Crime Fiction.

not really, Stoppard himself admits that the play has been minipulated, he never really wanted it to be about critics over analysing, it was just a convieniant device to assist the whole absurdidst tradition. unfortunatly for stoppard over analysing scholars lunge at it claiming cultural commantary when all he wanted to do was parody and saterise the cosy school for shits and giggles. Otherwise i think the kind ppl at BOS wouldnt have set it as a text

 

[taxman]

I can see what you're saying, but BOS are not the most sane bunch of people. See crazy drama rules - not allowed to have anything suggesting weapons in the Group Performance, etc.

It's also my opinion that 'Hound' is in no way an absurdist play. I think it can definitely be seen as surreal, but there is no chance that is nor was it intended to be 'absurd' (not in its literal sense...it was not intended to be 'absurd theatre'.)

While I agree that the cosy school is being satarised, I think the most important parts of the play that Stoppard discusses is not the satire of Crime Fiction, but the comment on the real world. In any case, that's not of our concern really. For us, its Crime Fiction, full stop. I've just gone off on a bit of a tangent.

What I was trying to say in my first post was that the whole killer thing towards the end of 'Hound' isn't important as it isn't meant to be taken seriously. It's surreal and supports the theme of identity.

I've lost my point again. Damn.

 

[bigwillz]

I've lost my point again. Damn.

i don't think you had one.
Stoppard wrote it in '68, absurdist texts were the reality shows of today, also the play fits the fundamental conventions of absurdist theatre. Most people's teachers would be crammin that down out throats, if not every study guide ive seen has, and stoppard also likes to make that apprant in his various interviews ive read.

social commantry is the main issue stoppard likes to sink his teath into in TRIH, and as such it saterises the crime fiction genre, which convenianty is also a commantary of society, facy that.

 

[gorgo31]

The play is absurdist.

The play is Crime Fiction.

The extent to which Stoppard balances each of these, I believe, is entirely independent to each responder. Each person can read the play and see something different. This leads to interesting discussion and incorporates much debate about genre and the categorising texts into genres. I think the BOS made a clever decision to put it on the list, instead of going for another straightforward, boring Crime Fiction text.

And taxman;

The Theatre of the Absurd was never an organised movement, and I think you would be hard pressed to show that any of the writers who have since been categorised as "Absurdist" were actually writing for it. Stoppard's texts use many language and theatrical devices eg. play within a play, overlapping and meaningless dialogue etc. that were typical of the Theatre of the Absurd, and thus, whether he likes it or not, his play has been put into that mould. This, again, reflects the very notion of genre; is it the composer or the responder who allocate the genre for a text?

 

[Kabbasi]

To put in my two hard-earned cents, the concept of the detective being the killer themselves falls into the Postmodernist Crime genre. I read this long essay about it and got that out of it. So it's not particuarly original, but it is a genre that i don't think that many know about.

There. Now you can catch the bus from Whoop Whoop to Melbourne.

And as for Stoppard, I haven't read it yet, but judging by his other plays, I'm a little doubtful as to whether it is really relevant to Crime Fiction. But that was just my other two cents..

 

[kami]

To put in my two hard-earned cents, the concept of the detective being the killer themselves falls into the Postmodernist Crime genre. I read this long essay about it and got that out of it. So it's not particuarly original, but it is a genre that i don't think that many know about.

I'd just like to note that it isn't quite correct to label postmodernist crime as a genre (or even a subgenre) as postmodernism is an artisitic and cultural movement, one that is designed to escape complete definition at that. Crime fiction can be read (and written) from a postmodern perspective, but I don't believe you can prescribe it as a true subgenre.