Is the work / assessments harder at a top university? (1 Viewer)

[Flop21]

Okay, so at a top university (e.g. the top uni for a particular degree/field) are assessments harder?

I would imagine the standard to be much higher than of a lower regarded uni. Purely because you have uni A with a 90+ ATAR requirement, hence all kids in the course have received a 90+ ATAR. Then you have uni B with a 70 ATAR requirement, hence kids with around that ATAR (bit mixed). Obviously at uni A assessments will have to be harder because the kids' are academically stronger (you can't just let everyone get HDs). So therefore you end up with uni B having average assessments, and uni A having harder assessments.

So obviously in uni A, it's going to be much harder to get a higher WAM or GPA than at uni B.

NOW, I hear everywhere that employers don't care about your uni, only your grades (WAM or GPA). I'm not sure if this is true or not. If it is, then obviously it's going to advantage people going to lower unis with less harder assessments (because it's easier to get higher grades).

But obviously the person at uni A who has been pushed to a higher standard will academically be better off, yet on the employment side of things - they are not. Now this is only if employers truly don't give a crap about what uni you go to.

But I've also heard some people say that employers DO know what the top unis are and will take that into consideration when looking at grades.



So I'm wondering what's true?

 

[Silly Sausage]

Depends on the unit, lecturer, course admin etc etc

 

[enoilgam]

Okay, so at a top university (e.g. the top uni for a particular degree/field) are assessments harder?

Yes and no, but hardly absolute. The assessments I got at uni were very similar to my mates who did similar degrees at other unis (including Go8s). The marking standards are similar, but as you pointed out, at a uni with lower cutoffs, the calibre of students is lower and as a result, the bell curve is more favourable. Overall though, the difference is pretty minor and as SS pointed out, there are other factors as well.

NOW, I hear everywhere that employers don't care about your uni, only your grades (WAM or GPA). I'm not sure if this is true or not. If it is, then obviously it's going to advantage people going to lower unis with less harder assessments (because it's easier to get higher grades).

But obviously the person at uni A who has been pushed to a higher standard will academically be better off, yet on the employment side of things - they are not. Now this is only if employers truly don't give a crap about what uni you go to.

But I've also heard some people say that employers DO know what the top unis are and will take that into consideration when looking at grades.

So I'm wondering what's true?

Dont take this the wrong way, but having read some of your posts, you think like a High School student when it comes to recruitment. I work in HR and gaining employment is NOT a points exercise. It isn't like High School, where getting a certain ATAR will get you into a certain course. Graduate employers view grades merely as a sign of your aptitude and are a check box item moreso than a defining aspect of your applications. Employers are pretty much going to look at your marks to see that you reach the cut-off and nothing more (credit average is usually the cutoff, but a Distinction average is far more concrete). Beyond that, they will be looking at your other attributes to make the hiring decision. Beyond graduate recruitment marks are worthless, most employers could careless about what you got in uni if you've been in industry for a few years.

Likewise, with uni prestige, it matters really only for areas like Law, IB and MBB. Otherwise, employers couldn't give a stuff about where you went. As with marks, a degree is a check box item and they will look to other factors when making a decision.

 

[isildurrrr1]

Usually it's easier to gain marks at lower end uni's as the skill of the cohort isn't as good. But if you put a D student from Go8 against a D student from tier 2 uni's, the Go8 will most likely win out if the same assignment is graded.

 

[Flop21]

Yes and no, but hardly absolute. The assessments I got at uni were very similar to my mates who did similar degrees at other unis (including Go8s). The marking standards are similar, but as you pointed out, at a uni with lower cutoffs, the calibre of students is lower and as a result, the bell curve is more favourable. Overall though, the difference is pretty minor and as SS pointed out, there are other factors as well.



Dont take this the wrong way, but having read some of your posts, you think like a High School student when it comes to recruitment. I work in HR and gaining employment is NOT a points exercise. It isn't like High School, where getting a certain ATAR will get you into a certain course. Graduate employers view grades merely as a sign of your aptitude and are a check box item moreso than a defining aspect of your applications. Employers are pretty much going to look at your marks to see that you reach the cut-off and nothing more (credit average is usually the cutoff, but a Distinction average is far more concrete). Beyond that, they will be looking at your other attributes to make the hiring decision. Beyond graduate recruitment marks are worthless, most employers could careless about what you got in uni if you've been in industry for a few years.

Likewise, with uni prestige, it matters really only for areas like Law, IB and MBB. Otherwise, employers couldn't give a stuff about where you went. As with marks, a degree is a check box item and they will look to other factors when making a decision.

Thanks. No offense taken since I am a highschool student lol. But I actually know that obviously grades aren't the only thing an employer looks at. I was under the impression skill was the main thing employers look at.

But also wasn't sure how much grades are a factor (since I hear everyone online talking about grades > uni). Then I got scared that if I went to a top uni the assessments would be too hard and I wouldn't be able to get that credit average.

Thanks for the replies, just trying to educate myself to make the best choices I can (which right now involves unis).

 

[enoilgam]

Thanks. No offense taken since I am a highschool student lol. But I actually know that obviously grades aren't the only thing an employer looks at. I was under the impression skill was the main thing employers look at.

But also wasn't sure how much grades are a factor (since I hear everyone online talking about grades > uni). Then I got scared that if I went to a top uni the assessments would be too hard and I wouldn't be able to get that credit average.

Thanks for the replies, just trying to educate myself to make the best choices I can (which right now involves unis).

I probably value grades a lot more than most HR people mainly because I do think they offer some insight into an applicant. Ultimately, uni work is similar to real work, in that you have a task, a deadline and expected standards which sometimes aren't always clear. So strong grades to me suggest a person is able to deliver at a high standard. That being said, I still only see it as a minor factor. Focus on building your ECs and networking more to be honest.

 

[isildurrrr1]

Always have good EC's since it builds your resume anyway. Having part time work experience or being a member of a student society/sports is all good.

 

[Amundies]

I dont think the actual work/assessments will be harder at top universities, because the work only depends on the course, and courses don't change depending on uni (physics at UWS is the same as physics at USYD, contracts law at UoW is the same as contracts law at UNSW). There is a difference in how strict some unis mark, but this obviously is really hard to quantify/have proper proof of.

Employers generally only care what uni you want to go for the most prestigious jobs (IB, MC, Big 6). I think this has been answered somewhere in this forum by enoilgam and seremify, and I would search for that and see what they say.

Edit: lol enoilgam beat me

 

[isildurrrr1]

It's all about dat curve especially in law. It's easier to get higher marks at the lower end uni's.

I have heard from a friend who did econ at mac and said UNSW 1st year econ stuff is 2nd year mac econ... so there's that.

 

[mreditor16]

Yes and no, but hardly absolute. The assessments I got at uni were very similar to my mates who did similar degrees at other unis (including Go8s). The marking standards are similar, but as you pointed out, at a uni with lower cutoffs, the calibre of students is lower and as a result, the bell curve is more favourable. Overall though, the difference is pretty minor and as SS pointed out, there are other factors as well.



Dont take this the wrong way, but having read some of your posts, you think like a High School student when it comes to recruitment. I work in HR and gaining employment is NOT a points exercise. It isn't like High School, where getting a certain ATAR will get you into a certain course. Graduate employers view grades merely as a sign of your aptitude and are a check box item moreso than a defining aspect of your applications. Employers are pretty much going to look at your marks to see that you reach the cut-off and nothing more (credit average is usually the cutoff, but a Distinction average is far more concrete). Beyond that, they will be looking at your other attributes to make the hiring decision. Beyond graduate recruitment marks are worthless, most employers could careless about what you got in uni if you've been in industry for a few years.

Likewise, with uni prestige, it matters really only for areas like Law, IB and MBB. Otherwise, employers couldn't give a stuff about where you went. As with marks, a degree is a check box item and they will look to other factors when making a decision.

Completely agree +1

A question for you tho, Enoilgam, since you're in the area - if one maintains a HD wam, how much does it actually help you at the end of the day? What's the point of a HD wam, when a D wam will probably be more than enough in the recruitment process (from what I've heard)? What do you think should motivate university students to put in that extra mile for the HD wam?

^^ This question is open to all to answer btw!

 

[enoilgam]

A question for you tho, Enoilgam, since you're in the area - if one maintains a HD wam, how much does it actually help you at the end of the day? What's the point of a HD wam, when a D wam will probably be more than enough in the recruitment process (from what I've heard)? What do you think should motivate university students to put in that extra mile for the HD wam?

^^ This question is open to all to answer btw!

From my experience, in most fields employers give little extra weight to a HD average over a D average, unless your HD average comes with a uni medal or something. Generally speaking, if you have a D average or higher employers will get the impression that you are capable and competent with uni and not much more.

That being said, if you are going for a job in Law, IB or MBB it will carry weight. With Law specifically, your marks do correlate a lot more closely to your competence than other fields. When I was working with a top tier, the managing partner explained that the firm mainly deals with issues that in house lawyers cannot deal with themselves. So there lawyers must have a stronger understanding of the law than the average lawyer and uni marks do a lot to show this competence (especially in the absence of other indicators as you would expect with a grad).

 

[RivalryofTroll]

Completely agree +1

A question for you tho, Enoilgam, since you're in the area - if one maintains a HD wam, how much does it actually help you at the end of the day? What's the point of a HD wam, when a D wam will probably be more than enough in the recruitment process (from what I've heard)? What do you think should motivate university students to put in that extra mile for the HD wam?

^^ This question is open to all to answer btw!

Like a HD WAM is always going to help you, but it shouldn't come at the cost of you not being able to improve yourself as a well rounded applicant (ECs, volunteering, work, related experience, etc.)

Obviously, there's fields such as MBB or IB where you'd probably want to have such a high WAM.

From my experience, in most fields employers give little extra weight to a HD average over a D average, unless your HD average comes with a uni medal or something. Generally speaking, if you have a D average or higher employers will get the impression that you are capable and competent with uni and not much more.

That being said, if you are going for a job in Law, IB or MBB it will carry weight. With Law specifically, your marks do correlate a lot more closely to your competence than other fields. When I was working with a top tier, the managing partner explained that the firm mainly deals with issues that in house lawyers cannot deal with themselves. So there lawyers must have a stronger understanding of the law than the average lawyer and uni marks do a lot to show this competence (especially in the absence of other indicators as you would expect with a grad).

But out of those 3 'fields', I'd imagine that Law (even if it's 'Big 6'/Top Tier) would place less emphasis on marks than IB or Management Consulting. Like, from my understanding, it's insanely difficult to get into IB or MBB without the great marks but for Law, you can compensate through being a well-rounded applicant (via ECs or work/related experience).

Like it's quite common for the top Commerce/Law (or Combined Law in general) or Commerce/Actuarial students, who are on or close to HD WAMs, to aim for MBB or IB rather than aim to work in a traditional legal or actuarial role.

 

[kwu1]

Completely agree +1

A question for you tho, Enoilgam, since you're in the area - if one maintains a HD wam, how much does it actually help you at the end of the day? What's the point of a HD wam, when a D wam will probably be more than enough in the recruitment process (from what I've heard)? What do you think should motivate university students to put in that extra mile for the HD wam?

^^ This question is open to all to answer btw!

Agree with above. A HD WAM (with law) is hard to achieve. It requires a lot of time, appropriately directed effort and most of all, consistency.

 

[isildurrrr1]

Agree with above. A HD WAM (with law) is hard to achieve. It requires a lot of time, appropriately directed effort and most of all, consistency.

out of an entire cohort, maybe one or two people in that year would get HD wam.

An 80 wam is already first class honours and makes you eligible to apply for oxford bcl/mjur.

A D wam in law would get you into a top firm.