Israel and Palestine (6 Viewers)

[Aryanbeauty]

De jure means legal recognition.

The State of Israel was first Legally recognized by the genocidal USSR (20 million killed before 1940.)

The USSR killed ten times more people in concentration camps than Nazi Germany.



It's a little more than "bad". It's ten times the Holocaust number of 6 million.

So if Israel was first Legally recognized by a mass murdering fascist state such as the USSR, what does that say about the kinds of leaders Israel had?

What does it say about the character of the nation of Israel? Advocated, funded, supported, in it's creation by the biggest genocide regime in the 20th century?



The USSR provided the fighter aircraft to defend Israel. The USSR killed 62 million, ten times the Holocaust, in it's concentration camps. That certainly can be termed fascist by any standards.

Israel Shamir said that Stalin was a Zionist:



Now why would the biggest Genocide killer regime of the 20th century, the USSR, that killed 20 million people in death camps before 1940, why would it fund the innocent little state of Israel?

Was the USSR totally Zionist? Evidently it was according to UN transcripts. I thought the Jewish people were persecuted in the evil USSR?

Big questions ot answer.

Hotshot, you still failed to give us your source where Soviet Union De facto recognised Israel on 27 November 1947:rofl: . Until then it was US who first gave recognition to State of Israel.

Where is your source that Soviet Union provided fighter aircraft to Israel.?

Since late 1948, Soviet Union switched side supporting arab government eversince, how atrocious, all arab countries supported by Soviet Union since 1948 LOL

Where is your counter argument that USA did not recognise State of Israel but only government? Are you running away like a coward when confronted with hard evience?

Even if Stalin was a zionist, it means even the worst ruler of that time and the best ruler of that time such as US president Roosevelt and Truman and British Prime Minister Churchill and Clement Atlee had something in common, Their endeavour to create State of Israel at the expense of Useless arabs Guess who is more important. Ha ha

Without changing its official anti-Zionist stance, from late 1944 until 1948 Stalin had adopted a de facto pro-Zionist foreign policy, apparently believing that the new country would be socialist and would speed the decline of British influence in the Middle East.[1]
The USSR supported the establishment of Israel. During the 1947 UN Partition Plan debate on May 14, 1947, the Soviet ambassador Andrei Gromyko announced:
"As we know, the aspirations of a considerable part of the Jewish people are linked with the problem of Palestine and of its future administration. This fact scarcely requires proof... During the last war, the Jewish people underwent exceptional sorrow and suffering... The United Nations cannot and must not regard this situation with indifference, since this would be incompatible with the high principles proclaimed in its Charter... The fact that no Western European State has been able to ensure the defence of the elementary rights of the Jewish people and to safeguard it against the violence of the fascist executioners explains the aspirations of the Jews to establish their own State. It would be unjust not to take this into consideration and to deny the right of the Jewish people to realize this aspiration." [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union_and_the_Arab-Israeli_conflict#Establishment_of_the_State_of_Israel

At least even the most cruel ruler of that time had hearts , isnt it cute :wave:

 

[HotShot]

Hotshot, you still failed to give us your source where Soviet Union De facto recognised Israel on 27 November 1947:rofl: . Until then it was US who first gave recognition to State of Israel.

Ehh...

Ok..


i didnt say that Russia recognised Israel or any of that. that was political exile.

I dont know why you drag me into this BS.

 

[Josie]

I think you'll find that was PoliticalExile, AryanBeauty.

 

[nathan71088]

Re: Israel For Dummies

I dont call giving Jews 55% of the land (if not more) that belongs to palestinians, peacefull nor diplomatic

It was not given to the Jews. It was given to the Israeli's, and It was done under a democratic vote: 33 for, 13 against and 10 abstained. You can't get more democratic or peaceful than that. Wars broke out afterwards and borders were reshaped but the formation was entirely democratic. Also, you speak of 55%...In the Peel Partition Plan, the Palestinians were offered the whole south of Israel from just below Jerusalem, almost half (the eastern part) of north Israel, as well as having Jerusalem as International land where neither Israel or Palestine owned it, so they had equal rights to it.


The offer was rejected...thats history...

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Re: Israel For Dummies

Once more, if the current landowners had agreed then I wouldn't have a problem with it. They didn't and that's what makes it absurdly undemocratic.

 

[MaNiElla]

Re: Israel For Dummies

It was not given to the Jews. It was given to the Israeli's, and It was done under a democratic vote: 33 for, 13 against and 10 abstained. You can't get more democratic or peaceful than that. Wars broke out afterwards and borders were reshaped but the formation was entirely democratic. Also, you speak of 55%...In the Peel Partition Plan, the Palestinians were offered the whole south of Israel from just below Jerusalem, almost half (the eastern part) of north Israel, as well as having Jerusalem as International land where neither Israel or Palestine owned it, so they had equal rights to it.


The offer was rejected...thats history...

no the vote is not democratic, plus palestinians are not allowed in jerusalem, the isralies dont let palestinians males under 50 years to enter jerusalem. While on the other hand, any israeli person is allowed to enter Jerusalem regardless of age.......this is not peaceful or democratic <shakes head>

 

[nathan71088]

Re: Israel For Dummies

Once more, if the current landowners had agreed then I wouldn't have a problem with it. They didn't and that's what makes it absurdly undemocratic.

Well I'm sorry, I apologise on behalf of Israel for not inventing time-travel so the current landowners can go back to 1948 and vote. Please, once again, forgive me. I mean, 60 years cut me a bit of slack, I could try 10 but not 60...

 

[nathan71088]

Re: Israel For Dummies

no the vote is not democratic, plus palestinians are not allowed in jerusalem, the isralies dont let palestinians males under 50 years to enter jerusalem. While on the other hand, any israeli person is allowed to enter Jerusalem regardless of age.......this is not peaceful or democratic <shakes head>

"no the vote is not democratic" wow, u gonna back that up with actual reasons or evidence or you gonna just sling out some emotionally fabricated nonsense, the vote was democratic, end of story.

I was not discussing this issue of diplomacy or peace now, I simply was demonstrating that the palestinians ask for land and yet when it was offered both at camp david 2000 and in the peel partition plane where there requests WERE met, they turned both offers down.

I think you will find that some Palestinians regardless of age, above 50 or below, are not allowed into Israel full stop...just as many people aren't allowed into other countries unless they have special visas or permits, just like the rule with Palestinians. But, the wierd thing is, Israeli's are allowed into Jerusalem. Pretty odd, as you said, I mean, they are only citizens of the country...how absurd...

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Re: Israel For Dummies

Well I'm sorry, I apologise on behalf of Israel for not inventing time-travel so the current landowners can go back to 1948 and vote. Please, once again, forgive me. I mean, 60 years cut me a bit of slack, I could try 10 but not 60...

I hereby proclaim that the holocaust is now a moot point in history, as it happened more than 10 years ago.

Good job.

 

[PoliticalExile]

Who recognized Israel as a legal State first?

You're confusing informal recognition, de facto, of a government with formal and legal, de jure, of a State.

Hotshot, you still failed to give us your source where Soviet Union De facto recognised Israel on 27 November 1947:rofl: . Until then it was US who first gave recognition to State of Israel.

What's important is the Legal recognition, not informal, not non-legal, but legal.

De jure is the international law term for legal recognition of the state in the world of international law.

De facto is the international law term for informal recognition of a government.

A state is different from a government. A government can be in exile, while a state is a physical legal entity recognized and protected by international law.

USSR recognized State of Israel de jure (by law, legally) on May 18, 1948

"On May 18, 1948 Soviet Foreign Minister, Vyacheslav Molotov notified Israel of the USSR's decision to grant full de jure recognition."

muse.jhu.edu/journals/israel_studies/v010/10.1pinkus.html

USA recognized State of Israel de jure (by law, legally) on January 31, 1949.

"took the Americans more than a year to grant de jure recognition to Israel,...
United States has extended de jure recognition to both de jure and de facto governments on January 31, 1949.

links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0002-9300(196804)62%3A2%3C457%3ADFADJR%3E2.0.CO%3B2-1

What this all means is the moral raison d'etre of Israel is that it was formed by the support and important legal recongnition of the biggest genocidal fascist regime in the 20th cent. the USSR.

Israel was never created or supported by the USA as has been the popular lie to look good.

1. Israel was advocated in the UN by the USSR in 1947 (UN Gromyko transcripts)

2. Legally recognized first by the USSR first in 1948 (de jure legal recognitinon of State)

3. Militarily supported in 1948 by the USSR. (USSR Czech fighter planes)

The USSR commited a Holocaust on Caucasians that was ten times the Nazi Holocaust on Jews. The entire moral reasoning of why Israel is in any way representative of good is now dismissed. Israel was directly created first and legally recognized first by the the greatest genocidal regime the world has ever known, the USSR.

USSR killed 61,911,000 Victims in the Gulag concentration death camps:

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE4.HTM

o Table 1.A. 61,911,000 Victims: Totals, Estimates, and Years

Palestine was partitioned and the State of Israel was legally recognized by the USSR.

The whole basis of the legal recognition of the State of Israel is based on the authority of a genocidal regime, the USSR, which murdered 62 million in the Death Camps, a full ten times more than the 6 million in the Death Camps of the holocaust.

Israel was created as an extension of a Zionist fascist genocidal state (Zionist USSR).

Since the USSR was in violation of international law, by it's human rights abuses, the partition of Palestine as it was carried out in violation of the UN, is actually illegal. Israel is not a legal state.

All because Truman did not cross out "de facto" and write in "de jure" on that one single document.

 

[Aryanbeauty]

The USSR already granted de facto recognition to the Provisional Government on November 27, 1947, seven months before.

Hotshot, where is your proof ? Until then It was USA who gave recognition to Israel first.
By the way how can USSR gave de facto recognition of Israel before there was provisional government? Is this how history is twisted and manipulated in Madrassas again? :rofl:

Accept it Even Wikipedia said

On May 14, 1948, the United States, under PresidentTruman, became the first country to extend de facto recognition to the State of Israel. Past American presidents, encouraged by active support from civic groups, labor unions, political parties, and members of the American and world Jewish communities, supported the concept, articulated in Britain's 1917 Balfour Declaration, of a Jewish homeland. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel-United_States_relations#Recognition_and_early_relationship

Jewish-American and European-Jewish scientists played a major role in the development of the first atomic bomb .This gave the US military global military superiority until the Soviet Union was able to also create a nuclear weapon. Some in the United States had advocated a pre-emptive nuclear strike against the Soviet Union to destroy the Soviet threat.This Jewish contribution won great support for Jewish-Americans by the US government. (wikipedia)

Compared with Arab contributions in America , Terror attacks which made arabs the most hated people in America and every other western countries ever since.

Israel was never created or supported by the USA as has been the popular lie to look good.

Historical facts shows otherwise

American support for the age-old aspirations of the Jewish people to return to their homeland dates from the Colonial period when John Adams wrote: "I really wish the Jews again in Judea an independent nation for, as I believe, the most enlightened men of it have participated in the amelioration of the philosophy of the age." John Quincy Adams wrote to Major Mordecai Manuel Noah that he believed in the "rebuilding of Judea as an independent nation."
Not long after the Emancipation Proclamation, President Abraham Lincoln met a Canadian Christian Zionist, Henry Wentworth Monk, who expressed hope that Jews who were suffering oppression in Russia and Turkey be emancipated "by restoring them to their national home in Palestine." Lincoln said this was "a noble dream and one shared by many Americans." The President said his chiropodist was a Jew who "has so many times ‘put me upon my feet’ that I would have no objection to giving his countrymen ‘a leg up.’" http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/roots_of_US-Israel.html

Furthermore, America supported each and every reolution and declaration in support of the creation of State of Israel.

US Congress, State legistlatures and Governors:

Congress was no less sympathetic to the Zionist objective. One can look back to the joint Congressional resolutions of 1922 and 1944 that unanimously passed an endorsement of the Balfour Declaration. The House Foreign Affairs Committee stated in 1922:

The Jews of America are profoundly interested in establishing a National Home in the ancient land for their race. Indeed, this is the ideal of the Jewish people, everywhere, for, despite their dispersion, Palestine has been the object of their veneration since they were expelled by the Romans. For generations they have prayed for the return to Zion. During the past century this prayer has assumed practical form.


​

Legislatures in 33 states, representing 85 percent of the population, also adopted resolutions favoring the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine. Governors of 37 states, 54 United States senators, and 250 congressmen signed petitions to the President.

Each and Every American President since World War 1 expressed their support and intentions for the creation of Israel, NOT Palestine.

President Woodrow Wilson:

President Wilson expressed his support for the Balfour Declaration when he stated on March 3, 1919:

The allied nations with the fullest concurrence of our government and people are agreed that in Palestine shall be laid the foundations of a Jewish Commonwealth.



​

President Warren Harding

"It is impossible for one who has studied at all the services of the Hebrew people to avoid the faith that they will one day be restored to their historic national home and there enter on a new and yet greater phase of their contribution to the advance of humanity," said President Warren Harding.

President Calvin Coolidge

Calvin Coolidge expressed his "sympathy with the deep and intense longing which finds such fine expression in the Jewish National Homeland in Palestine."

President herbert hoover

"Palestine which, desolate for centuries, is now renewing its youth and vitality through enthusiasm, hard work, and self-sacrifice of the Jewish pioneers who toil there in a spirit of peace and social justice," observed Herbert Hoover.

Sources: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/roots_of_US-Israel.html

The Greatest president of ALL time FD Roosevelt

At the same time, Roosevelt had also been expressing support for Zionism; in February 1944 a joint resolution was put before Congress (1) to support unrestricted Jewish immigration to Palestine and (2) for the development of Palestine as a Jewish commonwealth. The vote on this was postponed after General George C. Marshall expressed concern over the impact it might have in the Arab world. Instead, Roosevelt made a public statement in favor of Zionism. http://www.answers.com/topic/franklin-d-roosevelt

So Sheikh Halily told you that USA never support Israel :rofl: Hotshot?

 

[nathan71088]

Re: Israel For Dummies

I hereby proclaim that the holocaust is now a moot point in history, as it happened more than 10 years ago.

Good job.

"Once more, if the current landowners had agreed then I wouldn't have a problem with it. They didn't and that's what makes it absurdly undemocratic."

Hmmm. Please try to be a bit more perceptive. The cooment was made that the current landowners did not have a say in the vote...I was just explaining why. Since you did not understand that I will say it so you can: the current landowners did not have a say because the majority of them were not alive 60 years ago.

 

[MaNiElla]

Re: Israel For Dummies

"Once more, if the current landowners had agreed then I wouldn't have a problem with it. They didn't and that's what makes it absurdly undemocratic."

Hmmm. Please try to be a bit more perceptive. The cooment was made that the current landowners did not have a say in the vote...I was just explaining why. Since you did not understand that I will say it so you can: the current landowners did not have a say because the majority of them were not alive 60 years ago.

LOL......If they werent alive, where were they? If the land owners where "not alive" getting the land wouldnt have cased so much commotion, since the land was deserted and it didnt have any owners. What a silly post..

 

[MaNiElla]

Hotshot, where is your proof ? Until then It was USA who gave recognition to Israel first.
By the way how can USSR gave de facto recognition of Israel before there was provisional government? Is this how history is twisted and manipulated in Madrassas again? :rofl:
quote]

Whats it with you and "Madrassas".......what are you on about go get your facts straight !!

 

[MaNiElla]

Re: Israel For Dummies

" But, the wierd thing is, Israeli's are allowed into Jerusalem. Pretty odd, as you said, I mean, they are only citizens of the country...how absurd...

Which just proves the facgt that the whole thing is unfair and sooooo undemocratic.....they should get their land back...FULL STOP :wave:

 

[HotShot]

So Sheikh Halily told you that USA never support Israel :rofl: Hotshot?

Hey do yourself a favour and ask NTB if PoliticalExile andI are the same? k

Fucken jews.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Re: Israel For Dummies

"Once more, if the current landowners had agreed then I wouldn't have a problem with it. They didn't and that's what makes it absurdly undemocratic."

Hmmm. Please try to be a bit more perceptive. The cooment was made that the current landowners did not have a say in the vote...I was just explaining why. Since you did not understand that I will say it so you can: the current landowners did not have a say because the majority of them were not alive 60 years ago.

You're an imbecile. Why? Only an imbecile would bother with such a fudging moronic defense for Israel. Seriously, "they weren't alive 60 years ago", give me a fucking break. Clearly, current landowners referred to the landowners, at the current point in context. ie: the people alive back then.

 

[Aryanbeauty]

Hey do yourself a favour and ask NTB if PoliticalExile andI are the same? k

Fucken jews.

truth hurts:rofl: especially when your ignorance is exposed.

You're an imbecile. Why? Only an imbecile would bother with such a fudging moronic defense for Israel. Seriously, "they weren't alive 60 years ago", give me a fucking break. Clearly, current landowners referred to the landowners, at the current point in context. ie: the people alive back then.

The land will always belong to Israel, like it or not. God's promised land, legally given to Israel by UN , rightfully acquired with sweat and blood by brave Israeli soldiers will not be given to anyone, you can moan as much as you want like those hydrogen-peroxide bleached fake blonde whores in Beirut. Now you can go and cry for aussie lands to be given back to aborigines, that may be more fruitful for you.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

The land will always belong to Israel, like it or not.

Always is a very long time you know anyway, I actually agree. I like to think a long way from now the land will belong to the state of israel, represented equally by jews and palestinians.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

God's promised land