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Israel and Palestine (2 Viewers)

MaNiElla

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Atilla89 said:
And you say that I distort the truth! lol!
nope, no where did i say that you are distorting the truth atilla, the only thing is that your views are different from mine. I never accussed you of anything. Its not like i take things here seriuosly, im only saying what i think, and what i read around.
 

BritneySpears

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Cirhosis=Alcoholic

Aids=homo he can contract those through someway but hey those videos of him passionately kissing another man speak a billion words.
 

MaNiElla

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BritneySpears said:
Cirhosis=Alcoholic

Aids=homo he can contract those through someway but hey those videos of him passionately kissing another man speak a billion words.
your just sooo damn perverted, lol, but i get it, you have no other way of backing up you arguments anymore, so you can continue believing whatever you want ;)
 

fatz000

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i think that israelis should do a favour for the whole world n jst stay in their country and mind their own business n let others get on with their life.... every country should do the same as well
 

nathan71088

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MaNiElla said:
nope, no where did i say that you are distorting the truth atilla, the only thing is that your views are different from mine. I never accussed you of anything. Its not like i take things here seriuosly, im only saying what i think, and what i read around.
"im only saying what i think, and what i read around."

You have now cleared up a mystery for me. I now understand what you have been saying all this time. I thought you were giving some sort of factual or extreme academic point of view. In this world there is truth and lies and then there is what you think. Every point that has been in contention with you, you have replied that it is a lie and made some outlandish comment to try and gain moral highground by condeming Israel's actions.

But, frankly, we live in the real world here. I can see you are passionate about what you are arguing but your arguments are paranoid dreams. You make Israel out to be this big silencer of world peace and human rights...well why haven't they got you then? They seem to fool everyone in the world but you. What special ability do you have to see through their 'magic'?
 

MaNiElla

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nathan71088 said:
"im only saying what i think, and what i read around."

You have now cleared up a mystery for me. I now understand what you have been saying all this time. I thought you were giving some sort of factual or extreme academic point of view. In this world there is truth and lies and then there is what you think. Every point that has been in contention with you, you have replied that it is a lie and made some outlandish comment to try and gain moral highground by condeming Israel's actions.

But, frankly, we live in the real world here. I can see you are passionate about what you are arguing but your arguments are paranoid dreams. You make Israel out to be this big silencer of world peace and human rights...well why haven't they got you then? They seem to fool everyone in the world but you. What special ability do you have to see through their 'magic'?
okay, what will you do if you've read lots of hair-raising news about Israel’s actions towards the Palestinians?

Personally, what i do, is that i read and research for the truth. I posts my arguments based on all the books, facts and all the acedemic writtings that i read concerning this field, and i also reflect my personal opinion on the matter as well. I do provide sources at times, to back up the arguments that i talk about here.

As for israel not being able to get to me, thats because i dont think that they take students chatting on a forum seriously. However, i do think that they would and have the ability and power to get to me and silence me, if it was extremely publicized and if my opinion became a world wide issue.....which is highly unlikely.

The reason why i think they have the abilty to fool people, is because it has allies with influental countries (US and UK), and i do think that together with all the media, technology and stuff they would have the power to pursuade and influence the most of the world to think and beleive from their point of views and perspectives.
 

BritneySpears

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Re: Israel & Palestine

MaNiElla said:
okay, what will you do if you've read lots of hair-raising news about Israel’s actions towards the Palestinians?

Personally, what i do, is that i read and research for the truth. I posts my arguments based on all the books, facts and all the acedemic writtings that i read concerning this field, and i also reflect my personal opinion on the matter as well. I do provide sources at times, to back up the arguments that i talk about here.

As for israel not being able to get to me, thats because i dont think that they take students chatting on a forum seriously. However, i do think that they would and have the ability and power to get to me and silence me, if it was extremely publicized and if my opinion became a world wide issue.....which is highly unlikely.

The reason why i think they have the abilty to fool people, is because it has allies with influental countries (US and UK), and i do think that together with all the media, technology and stuff they would have the power to pursuade and influence the most of the world to think and beleive from their point of views and perspectives.
Can you cite those academic writings which said Israel thratened Arafat's wife to deny his autopsy and Israel poisoned him etc . It will be interesting to know.
 

MaNiElla

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BritneySpears said:
Can you cite those academic writings which said Israel thratened Arafat's wife to deny his autopsy and Israel poisoned him etc . It will be interesting to know.
i wont post any sources, just because you requested me to. As for his wife if you read my post properly like normal humans, you'l see that i said that "I bet ya she was threatend", that was my own personal opinion and i wouldnt be all that surprised if they actually did threaten her :\
 

Atilla89

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MaNiElla said:
I seriously have no clue to how you are able to use the keyboard.
It clearly says that he didnt have aids because he had liver problems.
You also have no proof that he was an alcoholic, liver problems may happen from many different factors, such as increased levels of bilirubin in the system, viruses, poisons, the accumulation of iron, etc. Im begining to think that this whole alcohol/aids story must be started by israel to discredit and harm arafat's reputation. how mean, he's a dead man for gods sake, why dont they just leave the dead guy to rest in peace!! :confused: :confused:
This is should clear things up a bit.

In September 2005, the Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported that French experts could not determine the cause of Arafat's death. The paper further quoted an Israeli AIDS expert who claimed that Arafat bore all the symptoms of AIDS, a hypothesis later rejected by the New York Times. Dr. Ashraf al-Kurdi, personal physician of Arafat for the past 20 years, later declared that nothing in Arafat's medical report mentioned the existence of such a disease. Another "senior Israeli physician" claimed in the Haaretz article that it was "a classic case of food poisoning", probably caused by a meal eaten four hours before he fell ill on October 12 that may have contained a toxin such as ricin rather than the standard bacterial poisoning. However, in the same week that the Haaretz report was published, the New York Times published a separate report also based on access to Arafat's medical records which claimed that it was highly unlikely that Arafat had AIDS or food poisoning. Both Haaretz and the New York Times further speculated that the cause of death may have been an infection of an unknown nature or origin. However, rumors of Arafat's poisoning have remained popular especially in the Arab community, but also in the rest of the world. Dr. Ashraf Kurdi, which also follows the Hashemite kings, lamented the fact that the leader's wife Suha had refused an autopsy, which would have answered many questions in the case. Calling for the creation of an independent commission to carry out investigations concerning Arafat's suspicious death, Dr. al-Kurdi declared to Haaretz on September 9, 2005 that "any doctor would tell you that these are the symptoms of a poisoning".[23] Al-Kurdi told the Associated Press that Arafat had the AIDS virus and that "it was given to him to cover up the poison".[24]

On November 16, 2004, the Canard Enchaîné newspaper reported alleged leaks of information unnamed medical sources at Percy hospital having had access to Arafat and his medical file. According to the newspaper, the doctors at Percy hospital suspected, from Arafat's arrival, grave lesions of the liver responsible for an alteration of the composition of the blood, thus Arafat was placed in a hematology service. Leukemia was soundly ruled out. According to the same source, the reason why this diagnosis of cirrhosis could not be made public was that, in the mind of the general public, cirrhosis is generally associated with the consequences of alcohol abuse – even though the diagnosis was not of an alcoholic cirrhosis and Arafat did not consume any alcohol, there would have probably been rumors. The source then explained that Arafat's conditions of life during the last three years did not improve the situation: Arafat did not get health care appropriate to his state. Thus, according to the source, the probable causes of the disease are multiple; Arafat's coma was a consequence of the worsened cirrhosis. Finally, he had a brain hemorrhage and died on November 11, 2004. [25] The French newspaper Le Monde quoted doctors as saying that he suffered from "an unusual blood disease and a liver problem".

"I wont post any sources, just because you requested me to. As for his wife if you read my post properly like normal humans, you'l see that i said that "I bet ya she was threatend", that was my own personal opinion and i wouldnt be all that surprised if they actually did threaten her :\"

Well according to you, you get your opinion from "is that i read and research for the truth. I posts my arguments based on all the books, facts and all the acedemic writtings that i read concerning this field, and i also reflect my personal opinion on the matter as well." In order for you to come to that conclusion you have to have some sort of source. Personal opinion should and usually does come from knowledge or percieved knowledge. So unless your going to back up what you think or 'reckon' then you should retract it and stop spreading conscpiracies about things you clearly know nothing about.
 
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Atilla89

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Exphate said:
What is your source? Wiki?
Yeah it is but you can check the sources if you want. Personally it doesn't really matter that he's dead, all that matters is where do we go from here and as we've seen from the Palestinian side all we can expect is more violence and in fighting from Hamas and Fatah, neither of which are fitt to lead the Palestinian people to peace IMO.
 

Atilla89

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Exphate said:
Fatah fighting with Hamas is much better than Fatah AND Hamas fighting Israel, is it not?
Yeah it is and I hope they both rot in hell but fighting regardless of who is doing it is a bad thing.

Exphate said:
And stop using the collective "we". You aren't in Israel and you sure as hell don't fucking speak for me.
Get over yourself, I wasn't speaking for you, I was observing a fact that most of the world has seen.
 

banco55

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LOL the Palestinians never misss an oppurtunity to miss an oppurtunity. Instead of showing the world they can behave like normal people they behave like savages:

GAZA, May 14 — The Palestinian interior minister, Hani al-Qawasmeh, resigned Monday, and four more Palestinians were killed in fierce factional gun battles.
Mr. Qawasmeh, who has been unable to control either the Fatah or the Hamas forces, said he had not been given authority to direct the security forces that were supposed to be under his control.




http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/15/world/middleeast/15mideast.html?pagewanted=print
 

BritneySpears

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yeah I saw on the news tonight on SBS . 7 fatah members ambushed and killed by hamas, 16 people killed since sunday and 400 killed by either hamas/fatah violence since hamas came to power. They just love killing be it their enemy or their own people. Remind me of that song in fahrenheit 9/11 "Burn burn mo'fo burn" lol

I think they are better off under Israeli rule.
 
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Atilla89

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Exphate said:
Including Israeli soldiers who shoot innocent Palestinian civilians?
Is it possible to get over the fact that it is not the Israelis killing innocents it is the Palestinian groups such as Hamas who are doing this killing? Seriously you can list examples if you want and source them and most of them will be the rubbish that I've already seen and can easily defeat.

Exphate said:
If it's a fact that most of the world has seen, you'll be able to find and provide a list of official documents that concur with your crap. At one point, you are all for peace. The very next sentence, you go on your Anti-Palestine rant. Stop generalising.
Of course I am all for peace, in an sentence I say that I hate the fighting that goes on and I blame the appropriate groups who initiate the violence. I don't think I even have to list 'documents' 'proving' what I am saying, just go watch your telelvision however if you do want evidence of who is clearly in the wrong and who is intiating the violence I will oblige.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L15395920.htm

Fatah vs. Hamas clash

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_movies_blog/2007/05/hamas_dooms_its.html

(micky mouse character teaching terrorism and Islmaic world dominaition)

http://www.nysun.com/article/54515

Border calshes

Here are some examples of Hamas 'straining' the ceasefire in April:

This April alone, the following incidents illustrate that the media’s impression that Israel shattered the calm is anything but accurate:
* Islamic Jihad terrorist captured near Tel Aviv after his bomb belt fails to detonate
* Palestinian bride arrested on suspicion of planning to carry out suicide bombing
* 3 Israelis injured in shooting attack near Modi’in
* Hamas calls for further kidnappings of Israeli soldiers
* Israeli cars shot at in West Bank
* Israeli civilian wounded in West Bank drive-by shooting
* Arrests prevent huge Hamas-planned car bomb in Tel Aviv
* Egypt arrests would-be Hamas suicide bomber near Israeli border
* Palestinian rockets hit Sderot home; several Israelis treated for shock

Needless to say I could provide many more examples but I feel that I have made my point.
 

MaNiElla

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Atilla89 said:
Is it possible to get over the fact that it is not the Israelis killing innocents it is the Palestinian groups such as Hamas who are doing this killing? Seriously you can list examples if you want and source them and most of them will be the rubbish that I've already seen and can easily defeat.



Of course I am all for peace, in an sentence I say that I hate the fighting that goes on and I blame the appropriate groups who initiate the violence. I don't think I even have to list 'documents' 'proving' what I am saying, just go watch your telelvision however if you do want evidence of who is clearly in the wrong and who is intiating the violence I will oblige.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L15395920.htm

Fatah vs. Hamas clash

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_movies_blog/2007/05/hamas_dooms_its.html

(micky mouse character teaching terrorism and Islmaic world dominaition)

http://www.nysun.com/article/54515

Border calshes

Here are some examples of Hamas 'straining' the ceasefire in April:

This April alone, the following incidents illustrate that the media’s impression that Israel shattered the calm is anything but accurate:
* Islamic Jihad terrorist captured near Tel Aviv after his bomb belt fails to detonate
* Palestinian bride arrested on suspicion of planning to carry out suicide bombing
* 3 Israelis injured in shooting attack near Modi’in
* Hamas calls for further kidnappings of Israeli soldiers
* Israeli cars shot at in West Bank
* Israeli civilian wounded in West Bank drive-by shooting
* Arrests prevent huge Hamas-planned car bomb in Tel Aviv
* Egypt arrests would-be Hamas suicide bomber near Israeli border
* Palestinian rockets hit Sderot home; several Israelis treated for shock

Needless to say I could provide many more examples but I feel that I have made my point.
I think that palestinian civilians now need help from the world more then ever, because not only is israel slaughtering them, but also the other palestinian parties are too, which is heartbreaking :(

Oh, i advise you to stop posting the mickey mouse video all over again, because, in israel israeli teachers teach young kids that israel should take over all arab countries, etc. They teach this too young children at SCHOOL for crying out loud.

Here it is for you to read: http://www.doublestandards.org/meehan2.html

SO its not only the palestinians.

BTW i lol'd at the bride part :rofl: those israelis are sooooo damn insecure they actually arrestted a bride....lol...i wonder if they released her, since they were only suspisious...most probably 99.99% they didnt, but ohwell...
 

Atilla89

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MaNiElla said:
I think that palestinian civilians now need help from the world more then ever, because not only is israel slaughtering them, but also the other palestinian parties are too, which is heartbreaking
Yes I agree they need help more then ever - if only they could stop the violence against Israel and their own kind and recognise Israel's right to exist. It's not hard! But as to the second part, seriousl, stop with the Israel slaughtering them, not only is it a lie its getting very irritating that everytime Israel kills a terrorist you seem to view it as a bad thing.

MaNiElla said:
Oh, i advise you to stop posting the mickey mouse video all over again, because, in israel israeli teachers teach young kids that israel should take over all arab countries, etc. They teach this too young children at SCHOOL for crying out loud.

Here it is for you to read: http://www.doublestandards.org/meehan2.html
Few things here, I read this and I must say I didn't really trust it considering the obvious bias of the website but whatever. So I decided to do some researching of Israeli primary school text books and here is what I cam up with.

http://www.ipcri.org/files/ibookseng.pdf - it shows that "The trend in most school subjects is to maintain a balanced and positive attitude toward tolerance, peace and pluralism. In literature, written expression, and even Bible studies, a positive and accepting attitude to the “other” is emphasized."

For the short story I suggest you go to page 24 as it is quite long.

"SO its not only the palestinians."

Actually its not its many other countries in the middle east such as Iran, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon but thankfully Israel doesn't fall under that category :D



MaNiElla said:
BTW i lol'd at the bride part those israelis are sooooo damn insecure they actually arrestted a bride....lol...i wonder if they released her, since they were only suspisious...most probably 99.99% they didnt, but ohwell...
You laughed at that, wow you must live in a very dull world. But anyway - you can't deny that just about all those incidents were the result of these terrorist groups fighitng and not Israel 'slaughtering them'.
 

Atilla89

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Exphate said:
I agree and disagree at the same time.

I mean, surely they would be treated as second class citizens in Israel. BUt that said, they would have proper utilities, health services etc etc. Oh well.
Why would they be treated as second class citizens? Israel is a democracy just ask any Israeli Arab if they are being treated any less then other Israelis.
 

onebytwo

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Atilla89 said:
Yes I agree they need help more then ever - if only they could stop the violence against Israel and their own kind and recognise Israel's right to exist. It's not hard! But as to the second part, seriousl, stop with the Israel slaughtering them, not only is it a lie its getting very irritating that everytime Israel kills a terrorist you seem to view it as a bad thing.
you seem to be good with sources, so perhaps you can enlighten us on the number of israeli civilians killed by pali's and the number of pali civilains killed by israeli's in the last five years. there you will find the pali deaths staggeringly larger, and there you will see who is more at fault.
 

BritneySpears

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But why oh why Palestinian always killed eachother? The death toll in gaza ambush has risen to 8 as of the last news report. Two truce made by palestinians during the past 48 hours yet gaza is still in turmoil and gunfight. I think palestinian leaders are just a bunch of criminals like bikie gangs fighting for power. They certainly did a disservice to palestinian cause. Why should rest of the world care if palestinians themselves do not care about themselves.
 

onebytwo

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BritneySpears said:
But why oh why Palestinian always killed eachother? The death toll in gaza ambush has risen to 8 as of the last news report. Two truce made by palestinians during the past 48 hours yet gaza is still in turmoil and gunfight. I think palestinian leaders are just a bunch of criminals like bikie gangs fighting for power. They certainly did a disservice to palestinian cause. Why should rest of the world care if palestinians themselves do not care about themselves.
"palestinians kill each other, so its alright for israeli's to kill palestinians"
 

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