Israeli officer: I was right to shoot 13-year-old child (1 Viewer)

[ZabZu]

so Israel invaded Lebanon in 1978 to protect itself from attacks by Hezbollah even though Hezbollah was established in the 80's to protect Lebanon from Israeli attacks?

Lets clear this up. Israel invaded Lebanon in 1978 to disperse the PLO. However, during its occupation Hezbollah emerged in 1982, Israel then stayed in Lebanon to try destroy Hezbollah and protect its northern areas from Hezbollah attacks.

Joujou_84 Israeli forces left Lebanon in 2000 and since then Hezbollah has repeatedly fired on Israeli communities. A few weeks ago they sent a spy drone into Israeli airspace.

 

[joujou_84]

Joujou_84 Israeli forces left Lebanon in 2000 and since then Hezbollah has repeatedly fired on Israeli communities. A few weeks ago they sent a spy drone into Israeli airspace.

israel still occupies sheba farms in south lebanon........and the spy drone was a great humiliation to the israeli governement as it showed that they were not the great almighty powerful governemnt they thought they were as they failed to prevent this "spy drone" entering their air space....

 

[ZabZu]

I just looked up the Sheba Farms and my source says they are in the Golan Heights.

 

[ZabZu]

Ahh this is weird. One says Golan Heights and one says south Lebanon.
http://russiannewsnetwork.com/israel/israel-news.html - golan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Lebanon - Lebanon

 

[joujou_84]

I just looked up the Sheba Farms and my source says they are in the Golan Heights.

well theres this big debate..........israel says sheba farms belong to syria and syria says sheba farms belong to lebanon..........and lebanon says sheba farms belong to them........but israel is somehow trying to convince syria that sheba farms is theres and syria refuses to take land that is not theirs....so its sorta weird......but lebanon claims this land.......lebanese ppl live on this land........and syria does not claim it as part of syria rather it says its part of lebanon.....either way...its not israeli land and yet they have occupied it...,....

 

[joujou_84]

Ahh this is weird. One says Golan Heights and one says south Lebanon.
http://russiannewsnetwork.com/israel/israel-news.html - golan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Lebanon - Lebanon

yeh the first is an isreali source and the second is a lebanese source.......so each is going to give their opinion......i read somewhere that the UN recognises sheba farms as land belonging to lebanon....ill see if i can find it....

edit: actually the second is not a lebanese source....

 

[ZabZu]

well theres this big debate..........israel says sheba farms belong to syria and syria says sheba farms belong to lebanon..........and lebanon says sheba farms belong to them........but israel is somehow trying to convince syria that sheba farms is theres and syria refuses to take land that is not theirs....so its sorta weird......but lebanon claims this land.......lebanese ppl live on this land........and syria does not claim it as part of syria rather it says its part of lebanon.....either way...its not israeli land and yet they have occupied it...,....

Yeh your right.

"The Sheba Farms is a remote area bordering Syria's occupied Golan Heights. Israel said it seized it from Syria in 1967 but both Beirut and its political master Damascus say it is Lebanese land. Hizb'Allah guerrillas, which led the fight to evict Israel from the south, had vowed to keep battling the Jewish state if it did not quit Shebaa."

 

[joujou_84]

in the end this girl who was shot had a mother and a family who loved her.....isreali soldiers also have mothers and families who love them and its so sad to see so much blood shed for love of power and control....hopefully the isrealis and palestinians can live peacefully one day because its very depressing to hear that most of the ppl dying as a result of this war are quite young.....however to have peace u need some equality and freedom for both sides and with the palestinians reduced to living in the worst parts of palestine ur not getting this equality or freedom…….same goes with the suicide bombing making the isrealis feel that they have no freedom…and if they r livin in constant fear then they will retaliate….i really don’t know a solution to this problem because each side wants wats best for its ppl at the expense of others….and they cant seem to find a solution that will be accepted by both sides…

 

[ZabZu]

in the end this girl who was shot had a mother and a family who loved her.....isreali soldiers also have mothers and families who love them and its so sad to see so much blood shed for love of power and control....hopefully the isrealis and palestinians can live peacefully one day because its very depressing to hear that most of the ppl dying as a result of this war are quite young.....however to have peace u need some equality and freedom for both sides and with the palestinians reduced to living in the worst parts of palestine ur not getting this equality or freedom…….same goes with the suicide bombing making the isrealis feel that they have no freedom…and if they r livin in constant fear then they will retaliate….i really don’t know a solution to this problem because each side wants wats best for its ppl at the expense of others….and they cant seem to find a solution that will be accepted by both sides…

I couldn't agree with you more

 

[Jordan.J]

Lets clear this up. Israel invaded Lebanon in 1978 to disperse the PLO. However, during its occupation Hezbollah emerged in 1982, Israel then stayed in Lebanon to try destroy Hezbollah and protect its northern areas from Hezbollah attacks.

You forgot to mention that people took advantage of this and Jewish settlements began to appear in southern Lebanon AND at one point Israel moved all the way to Beirut AND dont forget the torture methods they used AND THEY INVADED LEBANON

He said that Israel moved in to disperse the PLO, and then remained to prevent Hezbollah attacks, whatever their cause. It isn't a pathetic excuse when one problem emerges as another is being dealt with.

umm ..... yeah it was a pathetic excuse, the whole world knew that and it took Israel 22 years to realise this

in the end this girl who was shot had a mother and a family who loved her.....isreali soldiers also have mothers and families who love them and its so sad to see so much blood shed for love of power and control....hopefully the isrealis and palestinians can live peacefully one day because its very depressing to hear that most of the ppl dying as a result of this war are quite young.....however to have peace u need some equality and freedom for both sides and with the palestinians reduced to living in the worst parts of palestine ur not getting this equality or freedom…….same goes with the suicide bombing making the isrealis feel that they have no freedom…and if they r livin in constant fear then they will retaliate….i really don’t know a solution to this problem because each side wants wats best for its ppl at the expense of others….and they cant seem to find a solution that will be accepted by both sides…

ditto

 

[ZabZu]

Yeh i know the Israeli invasion wasn't exactly good for Lebanon. I guess that they were determined to get the PLO out of the region.

Plus didn't the influx of the PLO from Jordan following the fighting in 1970 cause the Lebanese Civil War, because the growing number of armed PLO fighters worried the Christian government?

 

[joujou_84]

Plus didn't the influx of the PLO from Jordan following the fighting in 1970 cause the Lebanese Civil War, because the growing number of armed PLO fighters worried the Christian government?

yes thats correct....however the got rid of the PLO from the area and then failed to leave.....remaining there for 23 yrs and this is where the problem lies.....in one way they helped lebanon and then they made lebanon pay for it in the long run...i guess the israelis also paid for their actions......thousands of israeli soldiers were killed for no particular reason....its honourable to die fighting for ur land....buts its dissapointing to die occupying the land of others....i find it such a waste of a life...

 

[Bone577]

It is interesting to note that Israels northern border was quiet until they decided to assasinate a Hizbollah leader. Attacks on northern Israel are/were reactionary, as is the Palestinian resistance.

 

[ZabZu]

It is interesting to note that Israels northern border was quiet until they decided to assasinate a Hizbollah leader. Attacks on northern Israel are/were reactionary, as is the Palestinian resistance.

What you are saying is correct to a degree. However, there are Islamic extremist groups who will keep on attacking Israel until its destroyed. Even if there is a Palestinian state, these groups will continue to coordinate strikes on Israel.

Heres an article i found on SMH. http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/10/21/1098316785885.html?from=storylhs
"The Israelis have no right to be on our territory. This territory is our own - all of Palestine, not just Gaza and the West Bank."

The extremists on both sides make peace very hard to come by.

 

[Bone577]

What you are saying is correct to a degree. However, there are Islamic extremist groups who will keep on attacking Israel until its destroyed. Even if there is a Palestinian state, these groups will continue to coordinate strikes on Israel.

Heres an article i found on SMH. http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/10/21/1098316785885.html?from=storylhs
"The Israelis have no right to be on our territory. This territory is our own - all of Palestine, not just Gaza and the West Bank."

The extremists on both sides make peace very hard to come by.

The original sin was commited by Israel. They are always purely reactionary. You cannot forget this fact.

But lets ignore it for a second and look at this as if there was no beggining. even better lets assume for sake of argument that the Palestinians were the ones that took Israels land.

The so called extremists on one side are a government, backed by the only superpower, the 9th largest military on earth, killing comparatively far more (in the range of 1:10 if i remember correctly), humiliating a race, displacing hundreds of thousands, voiding Palestinian lives of any value.

The other side consists of militant groups comprised of civilians, killing far fewer, armed with AK's, mortars, home made bombs and of course rocks.

At the very least it is the most horrid case of disproportional and collective punishment the world has ever seen.

 

[ZabZu]

The original sin was commited by Israel. They are always purely reactionary. You cannot forget this fact.

But lets ignore it for a second and look at this as if there was no beggining. even better lets assume for sake of argument that the Palestinians were the ones that took Israels land.

The so called extremists on one side are a government, backed by the only superpower, the 9th largest military on earth, killing comparatively far more (in the range of 1:10 if i remember correctly), humiliating a race, displacing hundreds of thousands, voiding Palestinian lives of any value.

The other side consists of militant groups comprised of civilians, killing far fewer, armed with AK's, mortars, home made bombs and of course rocks.

At the very least it is the most horrid case of disproportional and collective punishment the world has ever seen.

Okay i understand your position but your comments are very onesided. In a conflict such as the Israel-Palestinian conflict you have to look at all sides to create peace. Biased views do nothing.

I dont believe the Israeli government is extreme. I believe its the settlers in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank that are extremists. They dont want to see the creation of a Palestinian state. I believe that two-states is the only way the tension can be resolved (to a degree). The Israeli government's policies may be influenced by extremists and the Likud party has always supported the settler movement, until now. With Labour coming joining Likud in a coalition it would further moderate the Israeli government.

The US may support Israel but what other countries strongly support it????. Australia?, Canada?, Britain?. The world is very anti-Israel.

Before the first intifada in 1987 conditions in the occupied territories were reasonable. With the Palestinians rebelling against the Israeli occupation it made Israel adopt strict policies in the areas to avoid resistance. I learnt in English last year that if you rebell against the institution you will be worse off. This is what the Palestinians have done. However, i do not agree with all of Israel's policies. I believe that incursions into the West Bank and Gaza do nothing as they only increase the hatred of Israel and encourage Palestinians to become fighters.

 

[Bone577]

I dont believe the Israeli government is extreme. I believe its the settlers in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank that are extremists. They dont want to see the creation of a Palestinian state. I believe that two-states is the only way the tension can be resolved (to a degree). The Israeli government's policies may be influenced by extremists and the Likud party has always supported the settler movement, until now. With Labour coming joining Likud in a coalition it would further moderate the Israeli government.

You say they are becoming moderate regardless of the increase in settlements AND the construction of the apartheid wall? Not to mention the continuation of the criminal and long standing policies of past governments, which I won't even bother going into lest I wish to write a book about it.

The US may support Israel but what other countries strongly support it????. Australia?, Canada?, Britain?. The world is very anti-Israel.

The majority of the world is anti-zionist expansionism. That is obvious and clear, because quite frankly this expansionism is one of the most grevious and horrendous crimes in the world. Hence the vast majority of the time that a resolution is braught to the General Assembly on the matter, the world votes overwhelmingly against Israel.

Before the first intifada in 1987 conditions in the occupied territories were reasonable. With the Palestinians rebelling against the Israeli occupation it made Israel adopt strict policies in the areas to avoid resistance. I learnt in English last year that if you rebell against the institution you will be worse off. This is what the Palestinians have done. However, i do not agree with all of Israel's policies. I believe that incursions into the West Bank and Gaza do nothing as they only increase the hatred of Israel and encourage Palestinians to become fighters.

That they do nothing is not completely true. Take a look at the IRA and how far violence has taken them. But point taken.

But you say it as if they have not exhausted all other means. The US and Israel have systematically denied any peaceful negotiations with the Palestinians. No peace offer has ever encompassed 1) the right of the Palestinians to return to their homes 2) Palestinian self-determination and 3) all of the land as stiipulated by the '67 plans. All of which the Palestinians are completely entitled to. To expect them to accept anything less after suffering soo much is ludicrous.

 

[ZabZu]

Forget past governments we're not talking about that. We're talking about the government in power now, the same government that is removing all the Jewish settlements in the Gaza Strip and a handful from the West Bank.

Israel has not annexed the occupied territories to Israel, they are simply occupying them so they can have some kind of order and make sure there is not a radical regime put in place. You may have a different opinion but the West Bank and Gaza Strip are not part of Israel.

Let me guess, you think Zionism equals racism ay?

Some of the demands of the Palestinians such as making Jerusalem the capital of a Palestinian state and the right of return will never happen. Israel will never give up Jerusalem mainly because of its historical and religious significance. The right of return would threaten the Jewish character of Israel as thousands of Palestinians would then live inside Israel.

 

[Bone577]

Forget past governments we're not talking about that. We're talking about the government in power now, the same government that is removing all the Jewish settlements in the Gaza Strip and a handful from the West Bank.

Dismantling some and then on the otherhand constructing even more.
Ontop of that building the apartheid wall, a blatent disregard for human rights as a whole. The government is extreme as it can be.

Israel has not annexed the occupied territories to Israel, they are simply occupying them so they can have some kind of order and make sure there is not a radical regime put in place. You may have a different opinion but the West Bank and Gaza Strip are not part of Israel.

The best way to stop the reactionary resistance I would say is to withdraw from the occupied territories and furthermore stop bulldozing houses and killing so disproportionately. I think that would be the first step. Besides, settlements on Palestinian land IS annexation.

Let me guess, you think Zionism equals racism ay?

Contemporary zionism equals aggressive expansionism. Yes... and racism. We can see that quite clearly.

Some of the demands of the Palestinians such as making Jerusalem the capital of a Palestinian state and the right of return will never happen. Israel will never give up Jerusalem mainly because of its historical and religious significance. The right of return would threaten the Jewish character of Israel as thousands of Palestinians would then live inside Israel.

And as such Israel is blocking peace. Israel won't even support the globally proclaimed 1967 borders, nor honour the Palestinians rights, and you admit this. You almost sound like what you are saying is some form of excuse, which IMO is quite sickening. The Palestinians are ENTITLED to live inside Israel if that is where there homes are/once were, they are ENTITLED to be compensated, and the need for a "pure" state by the extremist government is not a factor to be considered.

Also, Jerusalem has significance for the Palestinians too, don't be soo short sighted, the Dome of the Rock is there after all.

 

[ZabZu]

The wall is there to protect Israeli civilians from terrorist attacks and it has been successful. You need to look at both sides.

Israel believes if they withdraw from the occupied territories chaos will erupt and attacks on Israel will still occur. Israel would then have to go back into the territories to eliminate the threat anyway.

Contemporary Zionism is the belief that Jews can live in Israel. Theres nothing about removing non-Jews.

Israel is not blocking peace by not agreeing to allow the Palestinians control of Jerusalem and the right of return. These are stupid demands and the Palestinians themselves know Israel would not agree too. There are Palestinians living inside Israel at the moment and the Palestinians who left, left either because they were scared of the Israelis or they wanted to make it easier for the Arab armies to identify the Jews. These people should live in a future Palestinian state.

I know about Jerusalem's significance to the Palestinians. However, Jerusalem is much more important to Judaism than Islam. Islam has holier cities such as Mecca and Medina. Im not being short sighted. I reckon to satisfy both the Palestinians and Israelis, Jerusalem would have to be an international city controlled by the UN or something like it was decades ago.