It Has Begun (1 Viewer)

[braindrainedAsh]

Originally posted by ohne
Firstly these reforms are not taking money away from the Universities at all. Indeed there will be a significant increase in the number of government funded HECS places.

That's interesting because I thought that the number of HECS places would be decreasing.... considering that unis will be able to up full fee places to I think it was something like 30% of enrolments, I didn't think there would be a larger number of HECS places... where did u hear this?

Originally posted by ohne
Austrailan universities at present are by no means rich. If you compare them to those in the US or even parts of Asia and Europe, they are actually underfunded. This is primarily due to high levels of regulation by the government. These reforms will allow Australia to develop world standard universities in an era where international competitiveness is becoming increasingly important.

I didn't mean that they were rich, I just found that it was an interesting trend that the universities which are comparitively richer (e.g. USyd, UTS) are rising fees, while universities that don't get the research dollars and hence are even more underfunded (e.g. CSU) have chosen not to rise fees. I just found it interesting why those that are richer are rising the fees and those that really need more money aren't. I just thought it was quite interesting really.

The reason why I bought up the Howard government and Howard's comments is not because I am stupid and didn't know that he was refering to primary/secondary education... it was because it was a comment that showed Howard's lack of support for publically funded education, which is also shown by these new reforms. Everyone has their own opinion on the issue so I understand if you see it differently from me. But in my opinion, university shouldn't just be for the financially priviledged.

When I heard that these reforms were going to happen, I obviously wasn't happy that I would have to pay more... but I wasn't out dancing in the streets or being capsicum sprayed because I knew that it was inevitable that they would be passed... I am not so naieve that I don't understand financial constraints etc... but it still doesn't mean that it is right and it still doesn't mean that people can't be annoyed about it.

 

[ohne]

Originally posted by braindrainedAsh
That's interesting because I thought that the number of HECS places would be decreasing.... considering that unis will be able to up full fee places to I think it was something like 30% of enrolments, I didn't think there would be a larger number of HECS places... where did u hear this?

If you'd like you can trawl through the proposals on the DEST website. My understaning is that most of the new HECS places will be replacing over-enrolements although there will be a couple of thousand additional places on top of that. Universities will now be able to toaccept 30% of students in courses as full fee paying although this is not linked to new HECS places being funded. As the present quota is rarely being exceeded it is unlikely that any chages will occue and if they did it would probably be limited to courses like law, medicine (if available) etc.

Originally posted by braindrainedAsh
I didn't mean that they were rich, I just found that it was an interesting trend that the universities which are comparitively richer (e.g. USyd, UTS) are rising fees, while universities that don't get the research dollars and hence are even more underfunded (e.g. CSU) have chosen not to rise fees. I just found it interesting why those that are richer are rising the fees and those that really need more money aren't. I just thought it was quite interesting really.

Different universities have different objectives and this is what the new funding system is about. If CSU wants to be a low-cost education provider then that's fine and they can continue doing so. Because Universities have the power to implement changes doesn't necessarily mean they will or they should.

Originally posted by braindrainedAsh
The reason why I bought up the Howard government and Howard's comments is not because I am stupid and didn't know that he was refering to primary/secondary education... it was because it was a comment that showed Howard's lack of support for publically funded education, which is also shown by these new reforms. Everyone has their own opinion on the issue so I understand if you see it differently from me. But in my opinion, university shouldn't just be for the financially priviledged.

I am somewhat confused by your comment that Howard is exibiting a lack of support for public education. In this country there is an enormous gap between the funding public and private schools receive. Sure the Federal government gives out more to private schools, but this is designed to correct irregularities in state funding, almost all of which goes to public schools as it is their responsibility. If Howard does not support public schools then why does the majority of tax payers money continue to go to them? Unfortunantly due to the present funding system, many parents can not afford to send their children to private schools because relatively large fees need to be charged to make up for the gap in government funding. I look foward to the day when true choice exists between public and private education and they are BOTH affordable.

I also have difficulty seeing how you can associate these University reforms as being 'only for the rich' as there will be an increase in HECS places where not one cent needs to be paid unless you have a decent income after you graduate and also a fee help service will be created so even full fee paying places will be available for those from less wealthy backgrounds.

 

[Raiks]

Originally posted by braindrainedAsh
But in my opinion, university shouldn't just be for the financially priviledged.

It isn't, hence the whole HECS Scheme.... if you haven't realised HECS is a system where you don't pay a cent for your 72% federally subsidised tertiary education until you start earning more than the current threshold. The idea of HECS was so university wouldn't be just for the financially priviledged and it works. And the government doesn't even charge you interest on it so the system in place definitely does support public education.

Why should people be annoyed that they have to pay a fraction more of their total university bill than they used to, shouldn't we be greatful that so much of our education costs are being subsidised by the federal government already.

Originally posted by braindrainedAsh
it was a comment that showed Howard's lack of support for publically funded education, which is also shown by these new reforms.

I'm hoping your referring to tertiary education because the Federal Government has nothing to do with secondary public education, so if you're upset about highschools, be upset with Bob Carr and the NSW State Government. But if you're upset with the Universities, and this whole reform issue, its just rearranging the numbers and if you go through it, you'll see that there will actually be an increase in the numbers of HECS places, which I personally would consider support of public tertiary education.

 

[Lexicographer]

Originally posted by Ribbon
I am glad I didn't end up at my second preference of newcastle!

It wouldn't matter WHERE you went since unless you transfer these reforms will do absolutely NOTHING to you.

To everyone bagging the Sydney universities, stop showing your jealousy at having to learn in the desert, or in some wimpy Satellite-City.
Uni-Bashing threads get locked.

As for people discussing the pros and cons of the proposals, good on you. At least SOMETHING in this thread is worth looking at.

 

[Raiks]

Originally posted by Lexicographer
To everyone bagging the Sydney universities, stop showing your jealousy at having to learn in the desert, or in some wimpy Satellite-City.
Uni-Bashing threads get locked.

And geographic and demographic bashing is allowed????

 

[crazybrad]

Originally posted by Lexicographer
It wouldn't matter WHERE you went since unless you transfer these reforms will do absolutely NOTHING to you.

To everyone bagging the Sydney universities, stop showing your jealousy at having to learn in the desert, or in some wimpy Satellite-City.
Uni-Bashing threads get locked.

As for people discussing the pros and cons of the proposals, good on you. At least SOMETHING in this thread is worth looking at.

die