John Warren (1 Viewer)

[Tenille]

The author of the book Access to history History & the historians (which i personally don't really like that much but thats on the point). is he classed as a historian or not, because i have seen some notes, i think, who have called him one but im not sure.

 

[Barb]

yes, he counts as an historian.

 

[da_butterfree]

are u sure?

hey.. i dont really think he is classed as a historian..
his book is like a text book..
i went to this lecture and the person said not to quote from warren..
now even i m confused!!!

 

[Tenille]

No you silly people don't tell me two answers!

 

[~dEjA vOuX~]

His book is like a textbook. Don't quote it!!

 

[Sarah168]

No, he doesnt count. That is not to say his book isnt helpful but it would be like quoting off Rep To Reich for Germany. Blagh

 

[Persephone87]

uh...are you using this for the essay or as trial stuff> because I think he cites enough historians in the book that you don't need to reference him in particular.

 

[Sarah168]

He has a nice little intro about "history" but nothing substantial enough to be able to quote. Are you looking at any particular quote in the book Tenille?

 

[Tenille]

For the project, i like how he he says something about postmodernism and holocaust denial, hmm i'll leave it draft still needs to go in next week if my teacher doesent like/agree with it i'll take it out and worry more then

 

[twiddla]

Biggest waste of time to quote from - our teacher said - ill give u this cos it happens to be here but don't quote it - just read to get general ideas

 

[shelley]

yes hes a textbook so not always a great idea to quote (that said every year theers been this textbook argument, its not wrong to quote ur textbook, its just not going to set u apart from others....) whats warren does is provide alot of quotes from othr ppl, such as hayden white, which explains there standpiont to u, rather then quoting warren, i used him as a guidline to understanding teh other historians, his book pretty much sets out the main pionts of what u need to know...context, approach, and hallmarks of style of each historian, plus he provides quotes from other famous historians about ur manditory historians, pretend like u read them and use those quotes...guess what the marker wont know *shock*

 

[The Nick]

Warren is most useful for the questions of inquiry he outlines at the start of the Access to History book. For metahistory, it would be wiser to quote Marnie Hughes-Warrington and Arthur Marwick. The historians themselves are also often useful (Edward Gibbon and Isaac Deutscher in particular). However, Warren is always there if you're in a pinch

 

[Demandred]

Hey where can I buy this book? It sounds like a pretty good textbook.

 

[Tenille]

Title: History and the Historians
Author: John Warren
Publisher: Hodder & Stoughton

 

[silvermoon]

yes, he counts as an historian.

i think i agree with barb - he IS a historian. that said, hes like Pamela Bradley (for those who dont know, shes an historian who also writes ancient history textbooks): they are historians and u can quote them if ur desperate, however the point of the text is to show u who the other historians are, so its better 2 quote them. For example, if Warren says "Herodotus says [whatever]", then its better for u 2 just take the quote (paraphrased or exact) and say 'Herodotus says' rather than saying 'Warren quotes Herodotus as saying'.

 

[Acid]

I think he's more of a historiographer/an... if there's such thing

 

[Bo_Bo]

Warren isnt technically a historian. I had to tackle this problem last year, as Acid said he is more like a historiographer. He doesnt really write about certain events in history but about the historians who recorded and researched history.
You can quote him, however, it is not recomended since he is merely quoting historians and providing his theories on their works and the methodology of historians.

 

[classics_chic]

The author of the book Access to history History & the historians (which i personally don't really like that much but thats on the point). is he classed as a historian or not, because i have seen some notes, i think, who have called him one but im not sure.

I don't know. His setup is somewhat like Pamela Bradley (see my post in the Ancient History board), but his work is far more reputable and complex. I'd say he's a semi-historian, and therefore I wouldn't quote him, to be safe. There are plenty of others out there. A text I used for the first question was MI Finley's "Ancient History: Evidence and Models" (which I also used for Telling the Truth in English )- it's really, really good, and ancient based (a breath of fresh air for me- I hate Modern!) so can also supplement ancient work (the historiography part of the syllabus) for those doing Ancient and aiming for a band 6. It explains the way history was written in different times, amongst other things.

 

[classics_chic]

I think he's more of a historiographer/an... if there's such thing

There's no such thing as a historiographer, just so you know.

OK, if people are in doubt, let's take this argument to the next level.

Historiography: from the words " historia " and "grapho" (obviously Latinised) from Ancient Greek (which I'm studying).

historia means inquiry, as coined by Herodotos, as all good Extension History students should know. grapho means "I write", therefore "graphy" is the art of writing, which here extends to mean the study of the art of writing.

So we're studying the art of writing about inquiry- there's no room for that to be an occupation in itself (also see my note below on the matter). It's too specific, and it's too new a field to be independent.

Plus three other things:

it's not in the Shorter Oxford Dictionary- it would be if it existed

"Even reputable internet sites like university sites can be dodgy- avoid them". (Dr Noel Weeks, University of Sydney)

As all good historians are historiographers anyway, the term's redundant.

 

[Caratacus]

There is indeed such a thing as a historiographer, as a quick google will demonstrate. History Extension students are Apprentice Historiographers.