Low scaling subjects (1 Viewer)

[kami]

Well, thanks to Kami, ive worked it out.
I have one preference spot left, i will be putting B arts in there at southern cross university, which needed a UAI of only 68.00 last year and i will go on to do a graduate diploma in education after that.
This is only a last resort for if i dont get any other offers

aww *feels all warm and fuzzy* you also might want to check out the alt. uni access guide to uni I wrote - there is a link in my sig - and it basically covers the options I outlined but in more depth and with links and so on...no one seems to look though

I think the marks in Music, IPT and Entertainment were pretty darn good (I was dissapointed with IPT and Ent though - I felt I did better in the exam). Anyway, I know they scale down, but even though I did well in them, and fairly ok in English and Physics, I still ended up with a crap UAI.
Now I'm up $hit creek cause I might not even get into IT @ newcastle (which has a crap IT Degree), when I was originally aiming for the B. IT @ UTS needing a uai of arround 90 - which I thought was quite acheiveable, but obviously not.

Actually, B in IT might not be a problem - if you don't make it into the B IT at Newcastle then maybe you should look at a Diploma in IT from TAFE or a private college? I know UTS gives like a year or year and a half of credit for those, which means you could jump right into second year after the Diploma.

Alternatively UTS, Macquarie, UOW and UWS also all run their own Diploma in IT programs that last for a year and allow transfer into second year of a B in IT.

 

[kezza-]

Okay, there's a massive misconception I've seen from people, n its no one's fault i just think the board have to let students know about this:


HSC RESULTS:

Your HSC Exam marks are not just a raw exam mark that has been changed a little. ie. If you got a HSC Exam mark of let's say 75, you didn't get 70-80 as your marks.

Everything in life gets to be the wonderful bell curve - lower marks have very few people, numbers increase to massive proportions for the middle marks, and then they decline right up until the top mark. Now, let's say you got a RAW EXAM MARK (exactly what you got on the exam) of 65.

And let's say the average (where most people were) was 60. You were above the average which at those marks mean the exam was pretty damn hard. Now, the Board like to have the highest point in the bell curve at around 70-75 (ever wondered why most people get band 4?). So your marks are ALIGNED. Now, this process is way too complicated, but essentially if the average was changed from 60 to 75 by the Board so most people get Band 4, then you might get aligned above the average up to 80!

Wow, sounds alot better doesn't it? That's why with all these people at Band 6's (90 or above) it doesn't necessarily mean they got over 90 as a mark (usually, but very possible). Hence, if you got a RAW EXAM MARK of 80 in that same exam where the average was only 60, you might get a band 6! Yep, only 80, and a band 6! The ALIGNED EXAM MARK that will show up on your results might say 91!

This is all thanks to the bell curve - they want the highest point at band 4. Basically, if u got around 75, you got around the average mark for that exam. If the exam was a PERFECT EXAM you'd have gotten 50 (in reality). Which is the absolute middle. Less than 75 is usually below the average, above is obviously higher.



UAI RESULTS:

Now, this is all leading onto one major thing: SCALING FOR THE UAI! First note: you know the original exam mark i was talking about? The 80 that gets a band 6? THAT 80 IS THE MARK THAT WILL BE USED! NOT YOUR HSC EXAM MARK! (nor your HSC mark that is average of exam and assessment). UAC uses that original mark, and your ranking from your school assessment.

Don't think of scaling as 'harder or easier subject scaling', it's not exactly like that. Scaling is this:

For a subject, if a candidate got mark 'XX', what would they have gotten if every person who sat the HSC for that year had sat that subject?

Example 1:

John gets a RAW MARK of 85 in General Mathematics. What would he have gotten if everyone - all those that sat General Maths, all those who didn't do maths, all those who did Mathematics, all those who did Extension 1, and all those who did Extension 2 - sat the exact same paper?

Well, most people in Extension and Mathematics should get higher shouldn't they? They should mostly get Band 6's or high Band 5's?

That pushes John's mark down more and more until everyone is filled into the equation. Suddenly he has a new scaled mark of 70!! Because if everyone had sat that paper, that's what he would have gotten according to the bell curve! Think of it as the average, with all those smart bunnies from extension, might have been as much as 15 marks higher! Thus, our dear John's mark goes down! =(

Now, I noticed one person said that the higher the mark, the less badly it is scaled NO MATTER WHAT THE SUBJECT.

THIS IS COMPLETELY TRUE!

Let's say John got 98 in General Maths. And how would he have gone if EVERYONE had sat the same paper? In other words, how many of Mathematics/Extension I/Extension II would have beaten him?

The answer is NOT MANY! A 98 is a VERY VERY high raw mark! Even the best of the best might have only gotten 95 or so! Hence, his raw 98 might be scaled to a 95/96! Or even not at all!

This shows that the better you go, even if every person in the state sat the same paper, you will still be higher than most! And thus, you WILL NOT BE SCALED DOWN MUCH AT ALL!

Hence, when I know people complain about General Maths and lots of other subjects, ask yourself this: if EVERYONE IN THE STATE had sat that same paper, how would you have gone comparatively? Would you get the same mark? YES! But how many people would be higher than you? Alot more than before! Which means how much your raw mark is worth is less! Hence, UAC won't give you alot of credit for it over someone who got a really high mark in any other subject.


Alright, Example 2, I'll use one of my own results here lol:

Let's say I get a 94 in Legal Studies this year. It DOES NOT mean I got a mark in the exam of 94/100. It means that whatever the average was, I was about (very sketchy guess here) 20 marks or more above it. How do I know this? Well, if the average the Board wants is 75, and they do that, it means my mark went up (or down) from whatever it was originally (97? 90?) to 94! Which is about 20 marks, but I'd imagine it'd be more. It means my mark was right up the top end of the bell curve, and still there were about 2% higher again.

Let's guess and say my ORIGINAL/RAW EXAM MARK was 90. The average was 70. UAC uses my raw 90 - NOT MY 94! THEY DON'T CARE! Now, they go, "if everyone in the state sat legal this year, how would he have gone?"

Everyone who didn't sit legal, but sat maths/geography/economics/physics/senior science/drama etc etc is put into the equation. Yep, every single one! How many would I have still beaten (percentage-wise). Would it still be about 98% of the cohort?

Now, if I would then the scaling stays the same - I get about my 90! (which is halved for two units of 45). Now, if they think Legal this year was really really hard, that even if everyone sat it I would go great, then it's scaled higher! And the opposite can also happen!




Soooo, I hope that explains it a little more, I'm just tryin' to help people understand how scaling happens and what marks are used. A lot of people get angry when they add up their best 10 units of the HSC MARKS (which as I've shown, are alot higher) and get an aggregate score (best 10 added up) of 400 and only get a UAI of 75. (an aggregate of 400 is actually about 95 UAI lol).

If you have any questions please ask, I know I've been trying forever to find out how the system works.

 

[shortygb]

thank you very much scaling...

 

[melsc]

I don't think the scaling of my subjects had much of an impact on my UAI - if you go well in a "low scaling subject" than you don't seem to be affected by it. So i think it is fair enough.

This is what I found with my marks (my subjects) see my sig arent the highest scalling but I did better in them than i wld have in a high scalling one and thus scalling didnt really effect me

 

[prinze__martin]

jsu do well in wateva subject u doin. Usually got do well in vet courses n lower scalin subjects. i got 90 uai but some band 4s for my two of my courses. somehow i managed to pull an 83.5 uai.

 

[chap87]

i did higher scaling subjects, such as advanced english, software, chemistry, physics, ext 2 maths, but will be the first to admit i dont like the scaling system. However, if you do things right, you can still get a very big UAI with lower scaled subjects. One girl at our school, who got the best HSC with a UAI of 98ish i think a couple years ago, she did subjects like general maths and english (got mid 90's in both i think). SO while it may be harder to get the higher marks, it is far from impossible.
With my subjects scaling, 2 band 4s and 4 band 5's i ended up with 91.10.

 

[kow_dude]

The scaling helped obtain a high UAI, why did you just say you dont like the scaling system

 

[starbaaa]

Scalings an interesting thing. I present a case study: Me (A) and my friend (L). A got a high band 5, two low band 5s, two high band 4s, and a low band 4. Her subjects were adv english, 2u maths, chem, geo, mod hist, music 1, and she got a UAI of 81.00. L got a high band 5, three low band 5s and a high band 4. Her subjects were adv english, 2u maths, visual arts, ancient hist and legal, and her UAI was 79.45. Note that A's average is 79, and her UAI is 81, while L's average is 81ish, and her UAI is 79ish. You would THINK that L would get a slightly higher UAI than A. But, thankfully, I, A, got a slightly higher UAI than L. It all comes down to scaling. L feels slightly ripped off, for she did not know that chem scales better than legal, modern scales higher than ancient, geography scales better than visual arts, and that A's poorly-scaling music 1 will not be counted, because A does 12 units but L only does 10. Thus, A gets a better UAI. Note also that L performed better than A in english by 5 marks, and A performed better than L in 2u maths by a mere 1 mark. So theres a lesson to be learned here... I don't know what it is, but I got a better UAI than my friend even though I had lower marks, so... I win.

 

[jessiej87]

the system is in place to ensure a fairness.... it may seem that it is unfair to people who werent aware of scaling when choosing - scaling is something i think we SHOULD be informed of when choosing subjects and it sucks that they do not do so!

but it is not reasonable to say that for example in senior science u got 83 and if u did chemistry you would have got 83 and therefore a better UAI because the fact is senior science is way easier than chemistry or any other science that is in the HSC for that matter

you can not say it would be fair if i did chem, modern, advanced english, 2 unit maths and physics and got the same mark as someone who did senior science, community and family, drama, food technology, general maths and standard english - as due to the nature of some subjects they are obviously harder or easier - if they had the system this was everyone who just choose those really easy subjects and work really hard and get a really high UAI where as someone with hard subjects would not do was well but had more of a work load or harder work

+ scaling is done on the basis of how many people are getting within that mark range - this meaning if in senior science 2005 30% of people got band 6 it would obviously show that it was too easy in camparison to other subject areas - and therefore scaling changes every year....

so you can not say because u got a higher mark in easier subjects you should have a higher UAI - but in saying that i still believe that when we choose our subjects we should be fully informed about the possible scaling of each subject and that the subject choice itself can dramatically effect a persons UAI

 

[jebbie]

Well, when i went online and saw my HSC results, i was stocked, thinking that i would get about 75-80 UAI.
Then this morning, turned on the comp and got 69.85 >< Mum and dad are pissed, not at me, but at the UAI process. I got such a bad UAI i think because of i have mostly low scaling subjects.

If i had done physics instead of senior science and gotten the same mark (83) i recon i would of gotten about 80, which i what i need for most of my courses.
My subjects were: standard enlgish, senior science, general maths, ancient history, drama.

Who else thinks that it is thier choice of subjects that stuffed up thier UAI? Do you think i am right in my assumption?
My marks are in the marks thread, if you want to check them out.

If i dont get any offers, i think i will repeat at tafe, and choose some better subjects, such as physics and advanced english, instead of choosing subjects based on what ill like.

Any thought?

physics is alot harder then senior science :/

you have to put it in perspective, thats what the uai does. its harder to get better marks in those subjects, thats why an 80 in one subject could be similar to a lower mark in another.

i chose low scaling subjects and realised i shouldnt have halfway through the year - a bit late.

 

[mazarina211]

im doin my hsc this year and my subjects are:

eng adv
general maths
business
biology
ancient hist
ext hist
2 unit religion

would any of these subjects scale me low if i dont do well in them?? (besides maths cus i know that scales heaps low)

 

[niteshade1312]

I really dont think you should thinki about scaling... just do the best you can do and that will determine everything.. I only say this because I didn't belive in scaling and it didnt seem to play that big-a- part in my UAI, considering I did 2 prac subjects

 

[SweetSeasons]

I don't think the scaling of my subjects had much of an impact on my UAI - if you go well in a "low scaling subject" than you don't seem to be affected by it. So i think it is fair enough.
You have to consider the fact that "lower scaling subjects" are considered easier, therefore if you had done the equivilant "higher scaling subject" you may not have got the same mark, but a lower mark.

Nah, that's bull... I did industrial tech last year and got 90, when going towards my UAI it got scaled down extreamly low... I was expecting low 80's with my marks and got 78.5