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Maths or Science compulsory for Year 11/12 Students (3 Viewers)

RivalryofTroll

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IMO people should do these subjects

> English, obviously but not that crappy analyse a poem or write about feelings but more skill based things like reports, etc
> Another Language, in this global society
> At least 2U math, so people are able to think more logically etc
> A computing course, since we're pretty much always using computers nowadays for everything would be useful to know how to use them properly
> A Humanities and Science subject, so you're a well educated person that knows a more variety of things

I think making maths and science compulsory is a good idea because it will teach students to learn a more variety of things and have a more educated society
1. Skill-based responses are within other subjects already, especially in the humanities (e.g. Business reports in Business Studies, or essays in humanities in general). English theoretically assesses your ability to think 'creatively' and 'critically' (in the sense that it can be your perspective).

My only criticism with HSC English is that it doesn't teach you the fundamentals of writing in higher levels of education (i.e. tertiary). University essays basically goes against everything you do for HSC English essays.

2. Another language, even in Year 12 - I agree. I think it shouldn't be assess-able, so to speak, but students should be required to attend compulsory classes and participate.

3. Agreed, but you don't have to necessarily do Mathematics in order to gain logical thinking skills.

4. Agreed.

5. Agreed.
 

Flop21

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People forget a lot over the course of summer vacation. 1-2 year is even greater. Even people taking gap years and going into uni have a harder time than someone whose gone straight into uni.
What does this even mean?

If you don't pick math or science, you're not going to be doing it in university.
 

isildurrrr1

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What does this even mean?

If you don't pick math or science, you're not going to be doing it in university.
How would you know? I know heaps of people who were dumb enough to do econ/accounting without doing maths in the HSC. Or it gives people very limited choices when they actually get to the stage of applying for uni. If you don't do year 11/12 maths, you seriously limit yourself in what you do.
 

Squar3root

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1. Skill-based responses are within other subjects already, especially in the humanities (e.g. Business reports in Business Studies, or essays in humanities in general). English theoretically assesses your ability to think 'creatively' and 'critically' (in the sense that it can be your perspective).

My only criticism with HSC English is that it doesn't teach you the fundamentals of writing in higher levels of education (i.e. tertiary). University essays basically goes against everything you do for HSC English essays.

2. Another language, even in Year 12 - I agree. I think it shouldn't be assess-able, so to speak, but students should be required to attend compulsory classes and participate.

3. Agreed, but you don't have to necessarily do Mathematics in order to gain logical thinking skills.

4. Agreed.

5. Agreed.
In engineering, we have to write a lot of reports for labs, and whatnot and we never learnt the skills to do so in high school and at uni, it is really isn't taught that well, they just assume you know how to do it. As far as I am aware, even engineering studies in year 11/12 doesn't have report writing so imo they should put that in somewhere.

and as for math, I am nit sure about other ways to gain logical skills (please tell me how so) but I think problem solving is one of the most effective ways to do so
 

RivalryofTroll

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In engineering, we have to write a lot of reports for labs, and whatnot and we never learnt the skills to do so in high school and at uni, it is really isn't taught that well, they just assume you know how to do it. As far as I am aware, even engineering studies in year 11/12 doesn't have report writing so imo they should put that in somewhere.

and as for math, I am nit sure about other ways to gain logical skills (please tell me how so) but I think problem solving is one of the most effective ways to do so
I never did Legal Studies but apparently, it doesn't really teach you actual 'legal writing' (at the university level) either.

Nevertheless, Law students eventually learn how to write proper Law essays.

Same goes for Engineering Lab reports. Even if you didn't do it in Year 12, you'll learn how to do it once you hit university (through friends, older students or assessment feedback even if it's not taught properly).

Since there's so much humanities hate and science love, I'll use a humanities example.

Economics is a subject that definitely allows one to utilise their logical thinking abilities.

There's plenty of logical links between the different topics within economics.

Also, a fundamental aspect of Year 11/12 Economics is 'cause and effect' (just like the Sciences).
 

mreditor16

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2. Another language, even in Year 12 - I agree. I think it shouldn't be assess-able, so to speak, but students should be required to attend compulsory classes and participate.
But then you get the problem of students putting very little effort and learning very little, if you make something non assessable. Its like how we rejoice upon being notified something is not examinable and hence don't touch it or worry about it. Similarly, if the subject is non-assessable, most students will treat it as a bludge.

Also, a fundamental aspect of Year 11/12 Economics is 'cause and effect' (just like the Sciences).
Good old "cause and effect" - imo the most important notion to HSC economics and doing well in it.
 

nerdasdasd

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How would you know? I know heaps of people who were dumb enough to do econ/accounting without doing maths in the HSC. Or it gives people very limited choices when they actually get to the stage of applying for uni. If you don't do year 11/12 maths, you seriously limit yourself in what you do.
Accounting isn't much maths , it is more conceptual.

Economics and finance involves lots of maths.

Universities have booster or bridging classes to bring students back up to date with the level (or basic level) of maths needed.
 

4025808

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But did you actually learn anything in 7-10?
cos I didn't.

I honestly think the junior four years were the biggest waste of time. A year 7 could easily jump to Year 10 or even year 11 after a term of studying. I mean, I entered prelim Chem knowing nothing but what an atom, molecule and a element was, in addition to how to 'balance' equations. English was a joke. My school (selective) didn't teach us how to properly write essays until prelim Eng. Math was a joke. Most subjects were a joke.

Having said that stuff like Australian history probably needs to be taught over 1-2 years but overall there should be some serious restructuring of the 7-10 syllabus.
Agreed. Year 7-10 was a serious joke. I could remember having so much free time everyday that I literally played on the computer all the time.

Maths stuff was literally just plug into formula. No logical thinking involved. Boring as shit. English was horribly taught as well. Science, well. Hah. I remember learning jack all and just memorizing content, no maths or anything interesting involved. The labs were okay though.
 

Trebla

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Agreed. Year 7-10 was a serious joke. I could remember having so much free time everyday that I literally played on the computer all the time.

Maths stuff was literally just plug into formula. No logical thinking involved. Boring as shit. English was horribly taught as well. Science, well. Hah. I remember learning jack all and just memorizing content, no maths or anything interesting involved. The labs were okay though.
That's the problem. The average student in NSW would find the Year 7-10 course quite challenging even though there is repetition and a 'slower' pace to some extent. For top level students, this is considered too easy and tedious.
 

Green Yoda

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I found yr 7-9 quite easy..but now the pace and difficulty is going up fast....I'm having some troubles catching up and understanding...math in nsw is effed up..start with some easy shît and an massive escalation in yr 10-11.
 

Librah

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When you get 60-80% in years 7-10 and other people getting 100% struggle with 2 unit in 11-12.
 

pomsky

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Yeah I did?

I think that's a big issue if you didn't or others didn't, which falls on the teachers / school. Or maybe the syllabus... I don't know because I was taught a lot of what is in the HSC and prelim courses in my junior years.

For maths especially, I cannot imagine a year 7 kid jumping to year 10. I know a lot of topics are repeated in a way... but that helped a lot because the basics of math became common knowledge.

We were balancing equations in year 10. Proper essay writing was taught in English in year 9.

However I was in top classes all through HS at an average school. I've heard that my school focuses on the top class and doesn't try as hard with the lower classes (I have a sibling in bottom class). And because I was in top classes, we got the good teachers who wanted to teach "high achievers". Not the crap ones that don't care.

Primary school needs a bit of a revamp as well I think. I went in to highschool with only the skills of reading + basic grammar + basic basic maths. I was taught addition and subtraction etc. then they tried teaching us long division in year 6... I've never once used long division in HS. I think they could do learning the basics of algebra at least in primary.
I go to a top 5 selective school though. So technically we should be doing something right. But for some reason Year 7-10 was not one of them.

Math can definitely be compressed. (Keep in mind I was taught the 5.3 syllabus, I have no idea what the others might entail) I mean, to put it into perspective, most tutoring colleges start in Yr 9 (2 years later than HS) and finish the syllabus one and a bit years early. That's 3 hours a week (or less) compared to the average 5.5 hours a week in school (comparing this to 2u math). Further, if stuff needs to be repeated ad nauseam because students are forgetting, then there's an issue with how it's being taught. Or the order it's being taught.

Personally speaking, the same concepts in science were repeated throughout Year 7, 8, 9 and 10. In Year 11, we literally went through the basics all again in the first term before we proceeded with the rest of the syllabus. Grappling with stuff like 'balancing equations' is really not that hard. Especially if we've already learnt algebra in maths. Grappling with concepts like moles, on the other hand, is quite a bit harder and if we were taught that earlier... imagine what we could be learning now. (coughrealsciencecough)

As for English, I know most people start learning essays in yr 9/10- which is quite a bit earlier than my school taught us- fine. But what about Year 7/8? That's still some useless years that can be shaved off.

All in all, really believe in a need to restructure the 7-10 syllabus. It might be that my teachers were just crap, but I don't think they could all simultaneously be crap until the senior years and suddenly make a 180 turn and be great.

TBH, I relied on primary school-skills until Year 9/10-ish. Primary was taught rather well for me, but I went to OC and I reckon that helped heaps. ( I remember prior to that I was always reading in class because school taught at such a slow pace that the top kids didn't bother to listen) Long division is taught so you understand how to divide without using a calculator. Personally I'm surprised you've never used it in any mathematics competition.

//end rant
 

rawrliongirl

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Agreed. Year 7-10 was a serious joke. I could remember having so much free time everyday that I literally played on the computer all the time.

Maths stuff was literally just plug into formula. No logical thinking involved. Boring as shit. English was horribly taught as well. Science, well. Hah. I remember learning jack all and just memorizing content, no maths or anything interesting involved. The labs were okay though.
ahaha it was suuuuch a joke. I had waaaay too much spare time on my hands and I'd play games like everyday as well but still managed to do well :')
 

Drongoski

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Neither science nor maths should be made compulsory.

However the teaching of science and maths should be made so good, i.e. many times better than it is now, all the way from primary school, that lots more people would be choosing such subjects in their HSC. There will always be people, from lack of opportunity, interest or aptitude, who should not be doing such subjects, nor made to do so.
 
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OzKo

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Neither science nor maths should be made compulsory.

However the teaching of science and maths should be made so good, i.e. many times better than it is now, all the way from primary school, that lots more people would be choosing such subjects in their HSC. There will always be people, from lack of opportunity, interest or aptitude, who should not be doing such subjects, nor made to do so.
Pretty much this.

If we want more students studying STEM subjects, let's improve how we sell these subjects before they reach Year 11/12.

Fixing uninspiring content and teaching in schools would be a great start.
 

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