Merchant banking (2 Viewers)

[Super Pig]

the financial mathematics thing at sydney is soooo awesome, it sounds bloody mad, but there are only 2 subjects :| and they ahve prerequisits which i cover since im doing engineering, i was thinking of just doing those 2 subjects and keeping the software engineering end regardless...

The new FM major is not that new after all. They simply put a handful of maths and stats courses together, and there you go, an attractive major for ppl with a maths brain and burning ambition into the money-making business. Good marketing stuff again.

The two FM subjects are really interesting though. There is a trading game in the 2nd year course, where ppl form banks and corps, and negotiate among themselves trading bonds and commodities. Exciting stuff. The 3rd year one is also fun. The lecturer uses his own elegant approach, and you just can't find a textbook that teach you how to do it his way. And yet it works beautifully and simplifies things a lot. He's writing a book on his work, I am very looking forward to that.

There are also 2 more advanced courses at the honours/postgrad level. They are attended by students as well as practitioners already in the finance industry who wish to sharpen their skills. UNSW and UTS have got similar courses but the USYD ones are at the highest level you can find in Australia.

 

[aditya]

wooow, thanks pig

 

[aditya]

so im doing commerce/engineering - im gonna double majro in commerce still, cuz u can at sydney so y the fuck not lol (excuse the language) - yeh so basicalli i def. wanna do accounting, and im thinking of either finance or econometrics - which would be best? with software engineering?

 

[CrashOveride]

Ok so ive enrolled in actuarial/computing at MQ
But from what i see here: quants, ppl in IB and traders make a lot more money than actuaries. To be honest, from face value anyway, the whole idea of insurance doesnt really excite me and i put actuary preference down at the time coz i heard that it pays well ^^

Is there any chance for me to get into quant,IB or trading(gota research this one more) with an actuarial degree..assuming i also pass all exams and get FIAA ?

Cheers guys... (i wish i had found this thread couple of months ago!!)

 

[Arkad]

Ok so ive enrolled in actuarial/computing at MQ
But from what i see here: quants, ppl in IB and traders make a lot more money than actuaries. To be honest, from face value anyway, the whole idea of insurance doesnt really excite me and i put actuary preference down at the time coz i heard that it pays well ^^

Is there any chance for me to get into quant,IB or trading(gota research this one more) with an actuarial degree..assuming i also pass all exams and get FIAA ?

Cheers guys... (i wish i had found this thread couple of months ago!!)

Yah thats what I mean with people not knowing about what a quant is and just go on picking a course like actuarial studies because they are good at math and wants to make a lot of money with it in finance. I couldn't see how people would be more interested in insurance policies than shares... I get the feeling that most of prospective students of actuarial stds are actually looking for a career such as quant, but they think actuarial is quant.

Crash, the good thing for you is that most quants need postgrad qualifications, so your bachelor degree doesn't really matter that much as long as they belong to a quantative subject or are related to finance. But it's also good to keep your options open since actuarial std is probably the safer choice in terms of career.

 

[Arkad]

so im doing commerce/engineering - im gonna double majro in commerce still, cuz u can at sydney so y the fuck not lol (excuse the language) - yeh so basicalli i def. wanna do accounting, and im thinking of either finance or econometrics - which would be best? with software engineering?

I'm not sure what you wanted to do aditya, but if its financial mathematics to become a quant, econometrics would be a better choice than finance in my opinion. Because with econometrics you are exposed to a many different quantative techniques that you wouldn't have met with your soft eng degree.

But if you were going for IB, then go with finance major. Also try changing your soft eng degree to law, or just drop it.

 

[#4]

Just on a quick side note...

Another tip.... Learn to go on drinking binges / socialise with the boys / get laid...


It sounds sleazy or whatever, but alot of finance guys love to party...

Make sure you don't waste school/uni just studying.... You'll get to 30-40 and see that you've wasted your life.

looks like finance is definately for me then...........sweeet

 

[CrashOveride]

Yah thats what I mean with people not knowing about what a quant is and just go on picking a course like actuarial studies because they are good at math and wants to make a lot of money with it in finance. I couldn't see how people would be more interested in insurance policies than shares... I get the feeling that most of prospective students of actuarial stds are actually looking for a career such as quant, but they think actuarial is quant.

Crash, the good thing for you is that most quants need postgrad qualifications, so your bachelor degree doesn't really matter that much as long as they belong to a quantative subject or are related to finance. But it's also good to keep your options open since actuarial std is probably the safer choice in terms of career.

Ok i can appreciate what you're saying about the safety issue...i get the feeling that (provided u land a job) there is more job security for actuaries rather than quants.

You said the bachelor degree isnt all that important...but do u think that by doing the actuarial degree...its a bit too insurance specific ? its not as broad as say a degree in finance or economics ? Also..to be able to do a PhD i assume u have to do honours first in a related field ..and so what are the entry requirements?

In addition, do employers really care where you get your degree/phd from at the end of the day? I was heavily under the impression that it sometimes does matter but the more ive been reading and just thinking about it..as long as u get good marks and have exp i dont think they ought to care that much ?

Cheers

 

[Super Pig]

Is there any chance for me to get into quant,IB or trading(gota research this one more) with an actuarial degree..assuming i also pass all exams and get FIAA ?

IB and trading are pretty much the same thing (IB = corporate finance + trading/sales as far as I know). Actuarial combines quite well with computing though, since there is demand for reliable actuary software at the moment. I don't think actuarial would be too narrow, because a branch of it concerns with finance and investment, not just insurance. You'll learn all the general accounting/finance stuff in the first two years anyway. So no harm. You may want to take some SIA courses after your degree or along with your uni work (don't know whether that's possible, anyone?). For a quant job, an honours degree is usually sufficient for a junior role. Then work the way up I suppose.

 

[doe]

you can start at the sia at the end of your degree ...

from what ive seen, it doesnt matter too much where quants got their phds from. a lot of them seem to have physics/maths background, with minimal finance. things can change though, especially as an industry matures.

 

[Super Pig]

you can start at the sia at the end of your degree ...

Are you refering to the graduate diplomas and the master program? Ok then, I may get one started next year. I think there are also open entry diploma courses, and any school leaver could take them. Is that right?

from what ive seen, it doesnt matter too much where quants got their phds from. a lot of them seem to have physics/maths background, with minimal finance. things can change though, especially as an industry matures.

Yeah it doesn't really matter at all. It doesn't take the maths/physics ppl too much time to pick up the finance stuff once they are in it. Their versatility gives them an edge.

 

[Arkad]

Ok i can appreciate what you're saying about the safety issue...i get the feeling that (provided u land a job) there is more job security for actuaries rather than quants.

You said the bachelor degree isnt all that important...but do u think that by doing the actuarial degree...its a bit too insurance specific ? its not as broad as say a degree in finance or economics ? Also..to be able to do a PhD i assume u have to do honours first in a related field ..and so what are the entry requirements?

In addition, do employers really care where you get your degree/phd from at the end of the day? I was heavily under the impression that it sometimes does matter but the more ive been reading and just thinking about it..as long as u get good marks and have exp i dont think they ought to care that much ?

Cheers

I'm assuming you want to be a quant rather than an investment banker. I get the feeling that not many people actually know the distinction between the two, just like the confusion with actuarial and quant.

Investment bankers are generally the MBAs, accountants, and lawyers with specialised knowledge in finance. They do not have to be good at math. They have to deal with clients and make sales. They travel around the country or the world in search of investment opportunities such as companies which is in need of money to start off a business.

Quants on the other hand are just mathematicians with some knowlege in finance, they are not involved with sales and management, they just build math models with options, futures, and other financial instruments. They use math models to invest in paper rather than people and companies.

If you're going for quant, in the end of the day all you need to be good at is applying math to models. But if you asking me if its a bit too insurance specific then I say yes, because thats the exact reason I didn't pick actuarial stds.

Yes if you want to do a PhD obviously you are going to need a first or second class honours in a related field.

I agree that employers would not really care which university you got your degree from as long as you have good grades. But I think the PhD degree is a special one, unless your research is truly outstanding in the field then it really does matter which institution you attended. A Harvard PhD in math will kill USyd Phd many times over.

 

[doe]

Are you refering to the graduate diplomas and the master program? Ok then, I may get one started next year. I think there are also open entry diploma courses, and any school leaver could take them. Is that right?

yep. if you poke around on the site i think you can do 1 subject for a post graduate course whilst still at uni (ie in your last semester of uni). i wouldnt do a masters at sia. i asked a few people and they kinda dissed it. one of the people i asked had a postgrad dip from sia and a masters of app fin from macquarie's finance school in the city, and to quote "sia is not much of a masters program". however, the sia is a crapload easier to deal with as they assume you are working fulltime, whilst universities assume you are at uni full time.

Yeah it doesn't really matter at all. It doesn't take the maths/physics ppl too much time to pick up the finance stuff once they are in it. Their versatility gives them an edge.

yep. i read somewhere (i forget where sorry) they are mainly after the formal training they have in quantifying their work (ie quantative methods) rather than finance knowledge.

you might be interested in this as well http://www.ederman.com/new/index.html
especially the "finding a job in finance" article.

 

[Super Pig]

Oooo cool stuff, thanks

 

[gm]

Whoever talked shit about the SIA masters doesn't quite know what they're talking about.

In Australia's finance industry, especially IB, trading and broking - the MAppFinInv (SIA) is practically the best degree you can get, it's completely practical, up to date and is taught by industry practitioners. I do post-grad at the SIA, we have traders and bankers etc talking at the lectures. It's also true that it's for people working, 90+% are business people, it's a good way to network. I have a Macquarie Bank FI Derivatives trader in one of my classes (he's a student), and i don't know all that many... I'm sure there are many more like this.

 

[gm]

Basically when people refer to Investment Banking, they're meaning Corporate Finance, Mergers and Acquisitions, Debt Capital Markets and Equity Capital Markets.

 

[gm]

With regards to Quant Finance in Australia. To be honest, there isn't a huge market here.

Most IBs have their quants overseas (Sydney is only a 2nd-tier financial centre).

I do know that Grinham Asset Management, an Australian based Hedge Fund, are highly quantitative. I've seen them advertise for PhDs in stat/maths etc.


My advice for everyone is to read alot of books on finance, gain an interest. Start reading the AFR.

If you go to an interview at an IB, and they ask you 'what's your interest in finance?' and you say 'real option analysis applied to structured finance, applications of neural networks and general data mining, i also love pricing carbon credits and water rights, and associated derivatives.'..... They'll laugh at you.

Communication skills are key in any job in an IB. You have to understand that not everyone is a quant, and to talk to technically will really get on alot of people's nerves.

 

[CrashOveride]

With regards to Quant Finance in Australia. To be honest, there isn't a huge market here.

Most IBs have their quants overseas (Sydney is only a 2nd-tier financial centre).

I do know that Grinham Asset Management, an Australian based Hedge Fund, are highly quantitative. I've seen them advertise for PhDs in stat/maths etc.


My advice for everyone is to read alot of books on finance, gain an interest. Start reading the AFR.

If you go to an interview at an IB, and they ask you 'what's your interest in finance?' and you say 'real option analysis applied to structured finance, applications of neural networks and general data mining, i also love pricing carbon credits and water rights, and associated derivatives.'..... They'll laugh at you.

Communication skills are key in any job in an IB. You have to understand that not everyone is a quant, and to talk to technically will really get on alot of people's nerves.

gm, do you think actuarial studies as a bachelor degree is too insurance-specific to lead me into possibly a quant job or something in IB? Or would you tend to agree with some of Arkad's thoughts on this matter?

 

[gm]

Don't worry too much about what you study, as long as it's mathematical.

Actuarial studies combined with Applied Finance (at MQ) is a really good degree to get.

Apart from that, studying econometrics, stat, maths, just about anywhere... and having a keen interest into the finance market is a very good start. If you can get into Actuarials, go for it!

Another tip. Every succesful person in finance world wide agrees that the 'finance' you learn at uni, doesn't make money in the markets (With regards to trading).

 

[gm]

Why is it that everyone here wants a quant job?