mmm revenge. (1 Viewer)

[brigittaclare]

Would you say that Revenge Tragedy is now more or less extinct as a genre, because of how our values have evolved since the 17th century (concerning honour, etc.)?
And if you agree, is that a strong thesis for my controlling idea of Revenge Tragedy? or am i just a twat.

 

[nandayo]

No, not at all.

I don't think you're a twat, but I think that could be a 'twattish' idea. From your study of Revenge Tragedy so far you should have realised that composers manipulate and subvert elements of genre to express their ideas in a way that is relevant in their own context.

Whilst you could argue that fewer revenge tragedies are written nowadays (although I think perhaps there are more produced today..) than compared to Jacobean England, you can't just say that it is "more or less extinct". Consider the plethora of modern RTs, especially as seen in modern revenge-based films.

Perhaps I misunderstood your original thesis, but to me - it seems you're saying "Revenge Tragedy is dead", which it certainly isn't.

 

[brigittaclare]

or perhaps i could argue that there are no successful RTs written in a modern context? although high noon was successful.

i think that even though, as you say, more RTs are produced today, it isn't quite the leading genre of modern times
because if we compare the success of RTs in a modern context to the RTs in a Jacobean England context, the genre is relatively extinct. (wasn't revenge tragedy much more popular then?)
would you say the use of the word 'relative' is any more useful for my thesis?
i have realised that composers manipulate and subvert elements of a genre to express their ideas in a way that is relevant to their own context, as you said, but i think that the context of Jacobean England provided a much richer set of values to base a RT on, compared to today, where our values are less concentrated on honour and virtuousness, and more on peace and love. sounds gay, i know, but i actually thought about the right words to say for ages.
i don't think you should be so certain that Revenge Tragedy is still alive.
but thankyou very much for your help.

 

[nandayo]

I see where you're coming from, but I'm still unsure as to whether you could successfully argue this thesis.

First of all, you agree that more RTs are produced today and you say that it isn't quite the 'leading genre' of modern times. Fair call. But does that mean because detective films aren't the 'leading genre' at the box office, that they're 'extinct', too? Because that's how it comes across, especially when you use a word that's so strong as 'extinct'.

There lies another problem, how do you measure 'success' of a genre? It's not exactly like you can research box office takings for The Revengers' Tragedy, and even then - that's not an accurate indicator of success.

I think a better word might be 'relevant' and as you said 'relative'; you could say something like "Nowadays, Revenge Tragedy can only be successful as a genre if is recontextualised in a way that makes it relevant to our own social values". If you take a look at John Kerrigan's book on Revenge Tragedy (which you probably already have) you should be able to see that in his opinion (as in mine) there are many modern-day Revenge Tragedy texts which are relevant and successful. He's also a Professor of English at Cambridge, which makes his argument pretty credible.

I see where you're coming from in saying that values have changed dramatically, which of course they have - but that doesn't mean that RT as a genre is any less successful. If anything it can be used to show a lack of these values, thereby asking us to question why they are absent/not important in our society.

I think I can be absolutely certain that Revenge Tragedy is still alive today. As to whether it's still relevant...well that's a question that's completely subjective to the responder.

 

[brigittaclare]

Its funny coz i presented it as a speech and discussion to my teacher [today] and he simply found my ideas "interesting"... a good interesting though, he wasn't very specific.

I think 'extinct' is probably too strong, but i don't want to be too vague with saying its just not as major as it was once. But even though detective films aren't the 'leading genre', they still exist and are successful, through 'midsomer murders' and 'ms maple', etc. I think you know what i mean here.

By successful, i mean that the particular genre is influential in the contemporary culture, that is, the issues that it plays with and expresses are relevant to the social climate of time period; i.e. "Chick flicks" value the femininity of women, which has been a strengthening issue in Western Culture since the rise of a sexually liberating Post-Modern ideology in the late 1960s.
This degree of influence would be too hard to measure statisically, and i don't think the success of a genre could really be reduced to a statistic, as you are implying. Perhaps just an indication that it is a popular concept.

With regards to Revenge Tragedy, i am concentrating on the absence of Honour as a prominent value in our society, except i'm still not sure why we no longer value it as highly.
Perhaps because our world doesn't conform to the military origins of the word Honour, although there would be contemporary 'adaptions' to the concept, such as patriotism, etc.

What is your evidence that Revenge Tragedy is still alive today?

 

[nandayo]

Hundreds of contemporary revenge tragedies that are produced 'today'.

I'd say that's pretty solid evidence that the genre is not extinct.

 

[brigittaclare]

i've already disagreed with using the word extinct

 

[Romeo Montague]

Some say revenge is a dish best served cold, I say it's a dish best served whilst raping your 5 year old daughter repeatedly.

 

[brigittaclare]

Some say revenge is a dish best served cold, I say it's a dish best served whilst raping your 5 year old daughter repeatedly.

lol
thats sick, thanks for that.

 

[nandayo]

i've already disagreed with using the word extinct

Extinct, not 'still alive', dead, kaputz...all the same and much of a muchness really.

It is still a very much alive and evolving genre that is explored by directors/writers from different cultures and social climates, I think that's a testament to its enduring relevance.