Morris Iemma resigns (2 Viewers)

[zeam]

chris im getting sick alnd all gooddamn tired of this labour support

 

[katie tully]

ery intelligent response. Either way, your political opinions are your own, just don't make unfounded statements when you don't have anything to back them up with.

lol wtf, man you're a tard.

What unfounded statement did I make?

f I had time, I'd address the likes of those Labor hacks and those who cbf doing a wikipedia search to see what their chosen political party stands for.

Hey dude, I speak English. Where's the unfounded statement and what do I need to back up? I haven't provided you with my political views yet! My statement was a reference to the fact that, when time allows, I will address some of the more ridiculous statements made in this thread.

Secondly, I didn't intend to address you at all. My statement was towards Rebeckki or whatever their name was.

Dude, you've just waffled off on a tangent over nothing.

 

[katie tully]

But while we’re at it.
WAF asked you which economic reforms by the previous Lib government intended to make the rich richer. You answered the Baby Bonus. Okay! Pretty sure $5000 to a couple on $200,000 ain’t going to make them richer!
For posterity –

dit: When, except when money is spent on subsidizing hecs places (which go predominantly to those from affluent backgrounds) or hiring butlers for millionaire prime ministers, has taxpayers' money ever been spent on making the rich richer? (Hint: if your answer is 'tax cuts', you're wrong).

You replied with

Hmm, lets see... off the top of my head I can name three:
- GST, a regressive tax system
- Baby Bonus; even Kerry Packer's getting it.
- Child care for people who don't really need help paying for it.

Do you know anything about child care?

The amount of CCB you get decreases as your income increases. Once your income reaches $126,000 you are no longer entitled to the CCB. If you earn less than $36,000 you get the full entitlement

So which part of child care is benefiting the rich and making them richer?

As for the centralised national education system - sure, Nelson proposed it, but did the Howard Government take steps to implement it? No. He cared more about bribing the old people for their votes and giving employers unfair (some might even say evil) advantages over employees with WorkChoices.

Lol that doesn’t even warrant being addressed.

No. Please do not place words in my mouth. Rich people are just like any other people and in most cases they're rich because they earned it. I was simply stating that rich people do NOT need help supporting their babies, nor do they need free child care, nor should they be paying the same amount of tax on goods and services as, say, someone earning less than $20,000 a year

Yeah, good going. You have no idea, do you. Also, $126,000 isnt a lot of money for a family living in Sydney especially when day care is, unsubsidised, atleast $56 a day

 

[katie tully]

o those saying that Federal Labor isn't doing anything, you really just have to look at their website to see that they are. Looking at each minister's news page can tell you a lot (they're updated several times a week):
http://www.alp.org.au/media/newslists.php

LOL! Uh oh! Holy crap guys, I had no idea that if I looked on the ALP website, I’d be bombarded relentlessly with the wonderful things they are doing!

From the right? Gough Whitlam? I beg to differ. Gough Whitlam was as far away from the right as you could be.

Lol

Sorry I didn't reply to this till now, didn't see it. I was here before 2007 and all I saw Howard do was:

- make Australia into a terrorist target by being too friendly with America
- completely ignore two of the largest economies in the world (other than America); that is, China and India. He only visited India in one of his final years in office! A proper Prime Minister would establish great relations between Australia and all relevant countries - ESPECIALLY COUNTRIES LIKE CHINA AND INDIA WHO ARE MORE RELEVANT TO US THAN USA. Damn racist asshole.
- ignoring the Indigenous Australians
- not signing the Kyoto Protocol
- causing Australia to be condemned internationally for the above point and for joining the war in Iraq.
- creating the GST despite saying: "There's no way that GST will ever be part of our policy.... Never ever. It's dead. It was killed by the voters in the last election."
- not improving the education system in any way whatsoever. This is certainly shown by:

Holy shit, how did I miss this one.
Make Australia a target? What... ?
Ignored China? Really, the only thing he did to piss off China was sign a defense pact with Japan.. What are you on about?
Indigenous Australians aren’t ignored, I don’t see any other minority receiving the same benefits.
So we were condoned by France and Germany for our involvement with the war? OH NOES.
Lol @ education, I think you can blame the last 10 years of a NSW Labor government for that, kiddo.

 

[katie tully]

Also, in regards to GST

You do realise that the Labor government now supports GST, yeah:?

 

[zeam]

4 consecutive posts nice you win

 

[katie tully]

Probably someone who recognised he was a good, compotent minister, regardless of what you/they might think of his personal life?

lol! Awesome politician, he defines irony. It's ironic that a member of the Motor Accidents Authority would lose his licence for speeding.

Also, I don't care that he sleeps with a tranny. I care that he is shit and that NSW Health is fucked.

 

[spiny norman]

lol! Awesome politician, he defines irony. It's ironic that a member of the Motor Accidents Authority would lose his licence for speeding.

Also, I don't care that he sleeps with a tranny. I care that he is shit and that NSW Health is fucked.

But none of that says why he's no good as a minister, as you claim. You certainly can't think him any worse than Meagher? As I said, his private life is irrelevant in judging his capabilities as a Minister. Thomas Jefferson, for example, fucked regularly a slavegirl 30 years his younger - a shit human being, but most would agree a great President. On the flipside, Morris Iemma is from reports a really nice guy, but was completely out of his depth.

So, please explain Della Bosca's ineptitude as a parliamentarian, not as a human being.

 

[katie tully]

I disagree to a point.
His antics in regards to 'Iguanagate' were disgusting, and we should expect more of those apparently representing our best interests. And lol, Motor Accidents Authority, and he gets caught speeding? And he mislead Parliament? Please, all of these are reflections of his ineptitude.

He's slimey, he's arrogant, and he was a terrible Education Minister. His solution to the teacher shortage was a ridiculous band aid solution, that would also involve 'dumbing down' the qualifications of TAFE teachers as a quick fix.

 

[chicky_pie]

Barry said it best that NSW Labor is like plastic surgery gone wrong. YOU CAN STILL SEE THE SCARS!!!

Liberals 2011.

 

[bigboyjames]

^Barry isn't much of a leader either.

 

[HisNameIsChris]

OK Katie, I admit I've been a bit unfair, and I'm not going to make any excuses for it.

I'm too tired to quote any of what you said, and though I think that you've made many good points, I have a few things to say, in your favour and against your remarks:

- $5000 baby bonus to people on $200,000. Sounds like nothing, but either way $5000 is a lot of money and they shouldn't be getting a cent of it.

- Child care: you're right, I apologise.

- National education system: it does warrant being addressed because it was not implemented by the previous government. I could say you said that because you couldn't think of an excuse, but I'll let you off on that one.

- I agreed with you on the child care, but GST should never have been implemented in the first place. I did not hear that Labor is now supporting GST, so that is one point making me dislike both Labor and Liberal.

- The ALP website is relevant if you're willing to sort through the bias and propaganda as it gives you an idea of what the government is doing, but I see your point.

- You're right that the NSW government is the reason the education system sucks, however a national system had it been created would have been the ideal solution. We can blame both parties for not doing this in the past few decades.

- Australia has indeed become a target due to the increased bonds with America in recent times (while some bonds are ideal and great, why do we have to be best friends with a country zillions of kilometres away with less relevance than the Asian countries surrounding us, that is the enemy of most of the rest of the world INCLUDING some of those Asian countries surrounding us?) and its recent actions. This can be seen from the various security talks that have been given to government agencies (not publicized, don't ask), terrorism evacuation plans made for Sydney, and the anti-terrorism services Howard himself made.

- In entering the Iraq war, we, along with the US were disobeying the wishes of the entire UN. We certainly were not condoned by France and Germany, because that would be an expression of approval. This, along with the Kyoto Protocol has given us a bad name as I've noticed in discussions with friends from other countries (including Japan, Ireland and the Netherlands).

- China has been ignored in that other than trading contact, Howard for example was always not very sincere towards them and he never tried to increase bonds with a country right next door to us. The way China has been treated is not as bad as India, which has been treated even worse (Howard didn't make a visit in any of the 11 years he was in office until one of the final, what, 2 years?). John Howard was too busy visiting America and Europe to visit countries where white people aren't the majority of the population.

- Indigenous Australians receive great welfare, but they have not received any other help and there continues to be a gap in age, money and education. Giving money has proved long ago to be an unhelpful, sometimes destructive thing for a majority of the Indigenous Australian population. Some other form of help is required - this hasn't been fully worked out yet, but we're getting there.

Anyway I apologize for saying you made unfounded statements (other people HAVE been but you weren't, so I confused you with others). I also apologize for thinking you were referring to me before. I'm sick and tired of writing walls of text so I now request that we can accept that we have different views on these matters and make peace and hopefully be friendly should we talk here in the future. Agreed?

 

[Farfour]

The GST is incredible as it's a consumption tax. You're a retard if you think it's regressive because it's not on necessities.

Srs lulz at people still whining about it: Get over it, the jig's up, all income tax should be replaced with a consumption tax like the GST, the government's got absolutely no right to know how much money I earn.

 

[katie tully]

- $5000 baby bonus to people on $200,000. Sounds like nothing, but either way $5000 is a lot of money and they shouldn't be getting a cent of it.

Why? It's certainly not making them 'richer'. Secondly, what's to say that every couple earning > $200,000 is even going to apply for it? You don't just get it when you have a baby, you have to apply for it.

- National education system: it does warrant being addressed because it was not implemented by the previous government. I could say you said that because you couldn't think of an excuse, but I'll let you off on that one.

I was laughing at your comments on Work Choices. You're mixing STate with Federal again. Really the only thing the Feds are responsible for is funding, anything else wrong with the NSW Education System, you can blame NSW Labor

- I agreed with you on the child care, but GST should never have been implemented in the first place. I did not hear that Labor is now supporting GST, so that is one point making me dislike both Labor and Liberal.

They most certainly do support it, and the only people who disagree with GST are those who do not understand it.

- Australia has indeed become a target due to the increased bonds with America in recent times (while some bonds are ideal and great, why do we have to be best friends with a country zillions of kilometres away with less relevance than the Asian countries surrounding us, that is the enemy of most of the rest of the world INCLUDING some of those Asian countries surrounding us?) and its recent actions. This can be seen from the various security talks that have been given to government agencies (not publicized, don't ask), terrorism evacuation plans made for Sydney, and the anti-terrorism services Howard himself made.

Err, I think you'll find all of the above are knee jerk reactions to Bali and 9/11. What makes you think we were so immune to attacks before strengthening alliances with America? I would think strong ties with the most powerful nation in the world would be a good thing.

- China has been ignored in that other than trading contact, Howard for example was always not very sincere towards them and he never tried to increase bonds with a country right next door to us. The way China has been treated is not as bad as India, which has been treated even worse (Howard didn't make a visit in any of the 11 years he was in office until one of the final, what, 2 years?). John Howard was too busy visiting America and Europe to visit countries where white people aren't the majority of the population.

Yeah? SO what. America and Europe are developed, China and India are still getting their shit together. You can't say we had no involvement with China, but to be honest, 11 years ago there wasn't a need. It's only in the last few years tha China has begun to strengthen and advance, and I don't quite know what else you wanted him to do. A free trade agreement with China? Pretty good.

- Indigenous Australians receive great welfare, but they have not received any other help and there continues to be a gap in age, money and education. Giving money has proved long ago to be an unhelpful, sometimes destructive thing for a majority of the Indigenous Australian population. Some other form of help is required - this hasn't been fully worked out yet, but we're getting there.

Nah that's bullshit, and I know it is because I see them come into my facility every day and they'd rather piss it up the wall than do anything with it. The amount of welfare they get goes above and beyond what other Australians get, they have 'Aboriginal only Medical Centres', 'Aboriginal only job positions', there are, holy shit, a million of employment and housing and education schemes available for Aboriginals only.

You can lead the horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

 

[HisNameIsChris]

HisNameIsChris is a fine example as to why retards can't tell the differnce between state and federal issues.

This thread is to dicuss about state, everything else can fuck off

kthxdiebye

I said I was tired of writing walls of text but - this whole thing started from OTHER people mentioning federal issues and linking State Labor to Federal Labor. Also, I prefer the term 'idiot' or 'dumb f*ck', not 'retard'.

Why? It's certainly not making them 'richer'. Secondly, what's to say that every couple earning > $200,000 is even going to apply for it? You don't just get it when you have a baby, you have to apply for it.

Why wouldn't they apply for it? Its like getting $100 when you earn much less - its small compared to your earnings, but of course you'll take it if you can get it.

I was laughing at your comments on Work Choices. You're mixing STate with Federal again. Really the only thing the Feds are responsible for is funding, anything else wrong with the NSW Education System, you can blame NSW Labor

I didn't start the mixing of State with Federal as I said above, but I'll leave this issue.

They most certainly do support it, and the only people who disagree with GST are those who do not understand it.

I quite do understand it. A rich person pays the same percentage as a poor person. While I agree that a poor person would buy less, and it leaves you with the choice of buying less should you ant to be taxed less, it is still a regressive tax in that a higher percentage of the total income of the poor person is paid in GST than the percentage of the total income of the rich person.

Err, I think you'll find all of the above are knee jerk reactions to Bali and 9/11. What makes you think we were so immune to attacks before strengthening alliances with America? I would think strong ties with the most powerful nation in the world would be a good thing.

America is one of the most hated countries in the world, especially by the Middle East. If we act like we're best friends with America, why wouldn't we be a target

Yeah? SO what. America and Europe are developed, China and India are still getting their shit together. You can't say we had no involvement with China, but to be honest, 11 years ago there wasn't a need. It's only in the last few years tha China has begun to strengthen and advance, and I don't quite know what else you wanted him to do. A free trade agreement with China? Pretty good.

China and India are right next to us. China and India are both powerful economies no matter what you say, and there is much profit to be made especially considering the way they've been developing. Why lug a boat full of sheep all the way to Europe when China and India are much closer?

Nah that's bullshit, and I know it is because I see them come into my facility every day and they'd rather piss it up the wall than do anything with it. The amount of welfare they get goes above and beyond what other Australians get, they have 'Aboriginal only Medical Centres', 'Aboriginal only job positions', there are, holy shit, a million of employment and housing and education schemes available for Aboriginals only.

You complain about me not reading things, and now you say this? I said giving money and all that has proved long ago to be unhelpful. That was referring exactly to what you said - most of them piss it up against the wall. As you said, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. I would like to extend that statement by saying: "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink without getting to know it and making it trust you"

Going a bit far, but the point is that the Government has to be working directly with the Indigenous Australian communities and work WITH them to find ways to solve the issues. By the way, I was not referring only to Aboriginals but Torres Strait islanders as well.
You can lead the horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

*too

bak 2 shkool

---

seriously though, good. if he's gonna be a dick about it then get the fuck out of the system. i'm ashamed that these hacks that quit as soon as they're booted from power, instead of serving their constituencies.

i suggest gaol time for representatives that abuse the system (iemma, costa, costello et al) for the sake of financial gain.

 

[jb_nc]

uh costello hasn't resigned yet and is representing the good people of Higgins still.

 

[Iron]

NSW labor has been extraordinarily indulgent over the past few weeks

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

uh costello hasn't resigned yet and is representing the good people of Higgins still.

just you wait, jb_nc. just you wait.