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CrashOveride

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The combined air and road resistance of a car in motion is proportional to v<sup>2</sup>, where v is its spped. When the engine is disengaged the car moves down an incline making an angle arcsin(1/30) with teh horizontal, with a velocity of 30m/s. Find the force required to drive the car up the incline with a steady spped of 24m/s, given that the mass of the car is 1200kg.
 

wogboy

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When the engine is disengaged the car moves down an incline making an angle arcsin(1/30) with teh horizontal, with a velocity of 30m/s.
As the car rolls down the hill with constant velocity, the net force on it is zero, so the resistance cancels out the gravity (they're equal in magnitude, opposite in direction). So if the F(resistance) = k*v^2, then k = F/v^2 = mg*sin@ / v^2 = 1200*(9.8)*(1/30) / (30)^2 Ns^2/m^2 = 98/225 Ns^2 / m^2

Find the force required to drive the car up the incline with a steady spped of 24m/s, given that the mass of the car is 1200kg.
When the car travels up the hill at constant velocity, the net force on it is zero again. There are 3 forces acting on the car, gravity + resistance down the hill and the applied force (F) up the hill, which all cancel out to zero.

F = mgsin@ + kv^2 = 1200*(9.8)*(1/30) + (98/225)*(24^2) N
= 392 + 250.88 N
= 642.88 N
 

CrashOveride

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Oh so you took it as constant velocity? I was a bit thrown off coz i wasnt sure if that was like the initial velocity etc

Also, cant i take the g as being -ve (say -10m.s^2)?
I did and i got a negative k and then my thrust force ended up being in the wrong direction but right answer (I took up the plane as +ve and my F<sub>T</sub> was -ve)

Edit: Oh i see, im taking g as negative inherently because of the weight vector going downwards.
 
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CrashOveride

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Some other quickies:

A smooth block 2kg slides down incline making an angle of arctan(3/4) with horizontal. Find acceleration of block..... in this case i got their answer just they said it was decelerating while i said it was acccelerating...when it says smooth we can ignore friction? and also we assume it was let go with no thurst force?

Q. A body of mass m is pulled up a smooth incline making an angle % with the horizontal, and has an acceleration f. Find the force F that pulls the body. Answer: F = m(f + sin&)
I had a 'g' infront of the sin& term.

Q. Truck of mass 200kg starts to climb an incline of angle given by arcsin(1/10). The total resistive force is 2000N. Find the retardation it experiences.

With this one i got it so that the Friction force equals zero and then i was stuck with evaluathing the thrust force up the hill.
 

CrashOveride

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also if im taking up the incline as +ve, shudnt it mean a displacement of 20m down the incline i can happily take as -20....coz for one of the eg. in the book it doesnt do that :S
 

wogboy

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in this case i got their answer just they said it was decelerating while i said it was acccelerating
It's decelerating upwards, accelerating downwards. Conventionally the up-direction is taken as the "positive" direction, so that's probably why they said decelerating. Shouldn't matter too much either way, if you say it's accelerating downwards it should be fine.

when it says smooth we can ignore friction? and also we assume it was let go with no thurst force?
Yes.

Q. A body of mass m is pulled up a smooth incline making an angle % with the horizontal, and has an acceleration f. Find the force F that pulls the body.
The object has two forces acting on it: gravity (mg*sin@, down the hill), and the "pulling" force (F, up the hill). Seeing as the body is accelerating up the hill with acceleration f, then the net force on the body is mf (up the hill). So:
mf = F - mg*sin@
F = mf + mg*sin@
= m(f + g*sin@) (up the hill)

Q. Truck of mass 200kg starts to climb an incline of angle given by arcsin(1/10). The total resistive force is 2000N. Find the retardation it experiences.
I'll assume that "retardation" means the force opposing the truck from moving up the hill while it's climbing the hill. There are two causes of retardation, resistance (friction) and gravity. You're told resistance is 2000N (down the hill), and gravity is mg*sin@ = 200*9.8*(1/10) N = 196 N (down the hill). So the total retardation force is 2196 N (down the hill)

With this one i got it so that the Friction force equals zero
How so?

and then i was stuck with evaluathing the thrust force up the hill.
Not given enough information to work it out.
 

CrashOveride

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For that retardation one....its like when something is undergoing retardation we know it will be decelerating,, so de/aceleration identifies with the retardation.
 

CrashOveride

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wogboy said:
The object has two forces acting on it: gravity (mg*sin@, down the hill), and the "pulling" force (F, up the hill). Seeing as the body is accelerating up the hill with acceleration f, then the net force on the body is mf (up the hill). So:
mf = F - mg*sin@
F = mf + mg*sin@
= m(f + g*sin@) (up the hill)
Yeah i got that, was wondering why they omitted the g. I shudnt think the book would be wrong at all..considering its Patel's "2nd edition" and a 4unit book etc.

I'll assume that "retardation" means the force opposing the truck from moving up the hill while it's climbing the hill. There are two causes of retardation, resistance (friction) and gravity. You're told resistance is 2000N (down the hill), and gravity is mg*sin@ = 200*9.8*(1/10) N = 196 N (down the hill). So the total retardation force is 2196 N (down the hill)
I took up the incline as +ve. Total resistive force is 2000N. Ressitive force is the force of gravity down the incline + friction force. So i said -(mg/10) - F<sub>F</sub> = -2000.

Then Sigma F<sub>x</sub> = F<sub>T</sub> - (mg/10) - F<sub>F</sub>
i.e. Signa F<sub>x</sub> = F<sub>T</sub> - 2000

Re-arranging the first part u get 10F<sub>F</sub> = -mg + 20,000
When you sub in m=2000kg, g=10 you get it cancelling out.

Now a = F / m . I can get F here only if i know what F<sub>T</sub> back there was.
 
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wogboy

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Yeah i got that, was wondering why they omitted the g. I shudnt think the book would be wrong at all..considering its Patel's "2nd edition" and a 4unit book etc.
It has to be a typo in the answers, otherwise the answer (which is supposed to be a force) contains a term m*sin@, which has the dimensions of mass, not force. mg*sin@ has the dimensions of force (through Newton's 2nd Law). The answer must somehow depend on g (it would surely be harder to push that body up the incline if you were living on Jupiter than on Earth)

Ressitive force is the force of gravity down the incline + friction force.
I took "resistive force" to mean friction, but I could of course be wrong. What's the answer at the back of the book?
 

CrashOveride

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-2 m/s^2

It said total resisitive force so i assumed any force opposing the motion.
 

CrashOveride

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No its 2000kg :)

Edit: Ah sorry, it was suppose to be 2000kg in that earlier post :uhhuh:
 

wogboy

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Ah I see, 200 Kg is too light for a truck anyway :D, so doing the same calculations I did before (this time with the mass of the truck being 2000 Kg),

F(retardation) = F(gravity) + F(resistance) = mg*sin@ + 2000 = 2000*9.8*(1/10) + 2000 = 3960 N (down the hill)

So the retardation acceleration is F(retardation) / m = 3960/2000 m/s^2 = 1.98 m/s^2 ~ 2 m/s^2 down the hill, or equivalently -2 m/s^2 up the hill. (minor discrepancy due to using g = 9.8 m/s^2, rather than 10)
 

CrashOveride

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Ah ok u had to take it like that....why would they say total resistive force? why not jhust say resistive force is 2000N...i feel like some of the questions u gotta be appreciative of the wording etc.
 

wogboy

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Ah ok u had to take it like that....why would they say total resistive force? why not jhust say resistive force is 2000N...i feel like some of the questions u gotta be appreciative of the wording etc.
Yeah, that's true, semantics can be quite important in maths/science. The word "resistance" (in this context) is traditionally linked with friction, gravity isn't counted as a resistance (probably because gravity doesn't ALWAYS resist motion, such as when the truck is rolling downhill). The phrase "total resistance" refers to all the forces which can be classified as friction (e.g. air resistance, friction due to tyre contact with the road etc)

It was a badly worded question though, I doubt you'll see this sort of stuff in an exam (for some reason mechanics problems in particular have habit of being ambiguously worded, which is the most annoying thing about them)
 

CrashOveride

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Yeah...i was just thinking for that question we just did, the thurst force of the truck never came into play? I mean that would affect the net retardation force acting on it ?
 

wogboy

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I mean that would affect the net retardation force acting on it ?
It would affect the net force on it, but not the net retardation force. Retardation (in this context) means how much the object is being forced against the direction it's moving. You don't need to know how much the truck was accelerating. All you need to know is that the truck was moving UP the hill at some (possibly non constant, but positive) velocity, so that the friction force is in the same direction as gravity i.e. down the hill.
 
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CrashOveride

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But say if the speed it was going up the hill, or the thrust force, was so great there may not even be any retardation force?

Oh i get ya...the net force would be all different but there would still be that retardation force that would slow it down by 2m/s^2, right? :)
 

CrashOveride

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Also when we take a displacement say down the incline (and we have taken up the incline as +ve) we would take the displacement as -ve because its down the incline? Some of the examples in the book dont seem to follow this ^_^

PS. SOrry for keeping you up :)
 

wogboy

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Oh i get ya...the net force would be all different but there would still be that retardation force that would slow it down by 2m/s^2, right?
Yep.

Also when we take a displacement say down the incline (and we have taken up the incline as +ve) we would take the displacement as -ve because its down the incline?
It really doesn't matter, as long as you explain yourself (e.g. write mgsin@ down the incline, rather than just mgsin@, for the final answer) then you should be fine. Having said this I'm not an expert on how the HSC exams are marked so don't sue me if you lose half a mark over it lol :p
 

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