Music 1 and some related questions (1 Viewer)

[187]

Note: if you would like to skip all the introductory rambling, head down to the sentences in bold. Thanks in advance. I apologize for the disturbing length of this post.

Before I bombard everyone with my questions, here's a little relevant background information about myself. I've just started Year 11 and I've chosen Music 1 as one of my subjects. The instruments I play (excluding the recorder, which everyone seems to have been forced to learn in primary school) are piano (5th grade AMEB) and classical guitar (5th grade AMEB). I've been playing classical guitar for about 3 years now, and while I do own an electric guitar, I'm not overly interested in Steve Vai or 23-minute-long modern guitar solos. Guitar is my primary instrument, but I've been told by an AMEB examiner that I have talent for music (yay!), and my piano teacher says that I have good touch. Regarding piano, I finished 4th grade with a B+ in year 5 or 6, before launching into a 5 year break. At that time, I had a terrible piano teacher who couldn't speak English properly, and thus I wasn't really interested in music at all. A few months ago, after that 5 year period of not playing piano, I've restarted with an excellent piano teacher and will sit for my 5th grade exam in May. It was only after I started playing guitar in Year 8 that I became truly obsessed with music; I average As in my guitar exams, and I should probably do the same with piano from now on.

Sorry about that long introduction, but now you know my situation. Basically, without bragging, I'm considered one of the top students in my school. People expect me to score 100 in my HSC - talk about pressure! Although a career in music would be a dream come true, it's almost certain that I'll end up studying Medicine. However, I would like to see if there's a chance for me to actually do it.

I've read in various places that to enter the Sydney Conservatorium of Music, the requirements are something along the lines of Music 2 and 6th grade theory, but I read in another thread that someone entered the Conservatorium with Music 1. Here's the thing: I'm studying Music 1, and I've heard Music 2 is quite difficult. I really can't afford to divert too much effort out of my studies, so let's assume I'm definitely sticking with Music 1. Argh, enough ranting - here are my questions:

1. What exactly are the requirements to enter the Conservatorium Of Music/USyd/anywhere else that's good for Performance (classical guitar) or Composition? e.g., auditions, number of pieces, theory, how good you have to be in general. I'm doing Music 1 - is that enough?

If I were to enter, I would probably go for Composition. However, I'm currently on Grade 1 theory. Yes, Grade 1. Before you become too shocked, I do have a good background in music and am a fast learner; I just would like to know if it's worth me "force-learning". If I definitely don't meet the requirements, I can just take it slowly and learn 3rd grade theory before Grade 6 AMEB. I've just been a bit...slack with my "official" theory knowledge.

2. I want to go for Music Composition, but I don't know how I fare, as this is my first time doing music as an elective. I like videogame music and can create instrumental pieces that are simple, but sound nice, but a friend tells me that the criteria doesn't care too much for this. I like classical music and could probably compose well if I was taught. For those of you who studied composition at school, what was the marking criteria, e.g., tempo/key changes?

3. Do I have to be a complex classical composer to be accepted? Electronic composers are accepted, right? My style is videogame-style random (it varies a lot, from Asian to rock to almost orchestral), much like Nobuo Uematsu (Final Fantasy music) or Yasunori Mitsuda (Chrono series' music), only not as good. If needs be, I'll beef up my compositions with theory, but is my style okay? I use many different, mostly classical instruments, but in a more modern style, although sometimes I use electric guitars. Is this okay?

4. How "good" would I need to be to be accepted for Composition? What's the general atmosphere, employment rates and number of candidates accepted?

I've been told I'm good/talented by some, I've been told I suck by someone else, and I've been told to keep trying by yet another. It's just the start of the music year, so I haven't submitted anything to my new teacher, but I've never had a composition lesson before. I don't officially use theory like "cadences" or whatnot, but I can tell stuff like, "Hey! A G chord might sound good after this C chord!" I worry about not being good enough,

5. Any final advice?

Again, I'm sorry about how long this post is, but there's a lot I need to rant about right now. I would love to become a professional composer, but it probably won't happen. I want to pursue the possibilities, however, because music is truly important to me now. If I've been told I have talent, and I can compose decently in my own unique (but maybe not musically mark-gaining) style without theory, can/should I work extra hard for the next two years and beef my up theory and compositions a lot? Will that be enough to be accepted to study music somewhere? Working my way up to 6th grade theory is the least of my problems right now, so don't worry about that.

6. Is there any way I can study Music and Medicine/Science at the same time?

It's an unusual question; I'll say that. Do only Art-ish subjects and Law mix?

 

[tash]

ok well i can only speak for UNSW (which is not a bad place to be for music!)- for our auditions you just have to play a couple of pieces and sing an unaccompanied song, then do this really random aural and theory test which is dead easy- the whole thing is just a formality just so they know you can actually play and have some kind of musical skills. they expect at least grade 7 ameb practical and grade 5 or 6 theory- for 1st year you're expected to be playing at least grade 8 pieces and in musicianship it's around grade 5 theory. so i'd suggest if you think you can, just learn what's in all the grade 2,3,4 theory and then do the grade 5 exam, and then you'll be super for unsw musicianship at least!

music 1 and 2 is essentially irrelevant- i did music 1 and caned my BA music subjects in 1st and 2nd year (which were the same classes as the B.mus students) because the only thing mus2 might have helped me in was sightsinging but it's not a big deal.

composition i have nothing to do with so can't help you there...

lastly, i believe you can do B.Med/B.Arts at unsw, i'm not sure about any of its details except it's about 7yrs. Or if you do a science degree you can do music as a minor i think. i'm not 100% sure, you can check out the unsw handbook for more details www.handbook.unsw.edu.au

if you have any unsw-related questions feel free to PM me and i'll be happy to try help!

 

[187]

Did you say...sing an unaccompanied song? Gulp...

It's good to hear Music 1/2 isn't that essential, but it's even better to hear about the possibility of a B.Med/B.Arts degree. Do you know if that Arts degrees would be worth anything, or would be pretty much be "just for fun"? I mean, would it be suitable qualifications to perhaps try to build a small career on, or is it worthless if it's not a full Arts degree?

Thanks a lot for your reply, tash. Argh, you're convincing me to try for UNSW...any ideas as to how many students are accepted each year? How many classical guitarists, in particular? (Piano must be Hell, so I'm not going to ask.)

Thanks again!

 

[tash]

ah don't worry about the song you just make it like 2 seconds long, and most people can't sing anyway! i'm sure the BA would be worth something, like you get the degree so it's not going to be any less than a normal BA- it's like combining arts with any other degree! in fact people would probably be like wow med and arts you are insane! haha

lol i'm ridicuously biased towards unsw i just tell everyone i know to go there! numbers i think there's about 25 for B.mus/B.ed and about 30 for B.mus. i don't know of any other classical guitarists (know a few rock guitarists though). i like it cos it's small and it's a pretty tight-knit little community. but it's not ridicuously hard to get into, like as long as you do your audition well and get a decent uai you should be fine! though if you just do it as a BA major then you don't need to audition, and you don't really do performance, just have to be in a performance group which is easy enough!

 

[187]

tash, I've found an awesome Arts/Medicine program that I'm hoping you might know about. It's located here: http://www.handbook.unsw.edu.au/undergraduate/programs/2006/3841.html

I'm absolutely stunned. It's everything I could ever have hoped for, but two main things I'd like reassurance on are:

1. If I'm doing this combined course, are the qualifications from it the same as any other course? e.g., will the Medicine qualification I receive from it be inferior to someone who's doing the same but non-Art course? Similarly, is the Art qualification I'll receive from it not as good as a normal one? Will it result in two crappy degrees instead of one good one? In fact, will I be learning the same things as both the Music and Medicine courses if I do a combined degree, or will I be receiving a "slimmed down" version of both in order to fit them into the 7 years?

2. I'm a bit confused with what the course actually entails. It says "Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery" - so I have to do both? Or does B.Med include the Surgery part of it?

With the Music part, is it like a general music course, or can I elect to do only Composition?

Thanks again so much, tash. This is the best news I've in a long while, and I'm sure you realize how important choosing the correct University course is. Yesss! Life is good.

 

[Phanatical]

The requirements for entry at the Con are knowledge in line with Music 2, 5th Grade AMEB Theory/Musicology, and (of course) a high standard in your chosen area of study (Composition, Performance, Musicology, Music Education). You don't actually need to HAVE Music 2 or 5th Grade AMEB Theory - but you do need to have knowledge at that level, and you'll have to demonstrate that knowledge in the Music Skills test.

Composition in the HSC rewards composers that are innovative, and entry to the Con for Composition is along the same lines. Composers with a grounding in electronic music are very well placed for entry to the Con, as it's not just encouraged, but required that all Composition students study electronic music for six semesters. That's why it's called the Composition and Music Technology Unit.

I realise this might sound a bit cliche, but markers are looking for a good understanding and use of compositional theory, innovative use of instruments (including extended techniques where appropriate), appropriate writing for instruments and voices (don't write something that can't be played), and inventive use of musical material. I cannot stress this enough - if you want to apply for the Con, then get yourself a proper Composition teacher (not a performer who also happens to teach theory - but a teacher who has, or is working towards a Composition degree).

Entry to the Con with a major in Composition is competitive, with approximately 14-18 candidates accepted every year, about a third to half of whom will be students with previous degrees. The atmosphere is pretty damned good though, and we have our own society, the Sydney Eclectic Composers Society, who put on a regular series of concerts of new Australian music. The Composition degree isn't the sort of degree you take for guaranteed employment - the most common pathways are teaching and professional composition - both of which are commonly done in conjunction with other jobs. That's why I transferred to the BABMusStudies instead.

You'll need to learn Some harmony for the Con, but you'll be taught the rules of harmony like voice leading and use of cadences if/when you actually get in. Fact is though, if you want to do a Composition degree, you need to put in the work now.

 

[ohyay]

I don't know if it's too late for you to change courses, but I can honestly tell you Music 2 isn't as hard as you think it might be. Harder than Music 1, yes, but Music 1 is a breeze. However, with Music 2, you need to do a core performance, composition and a musicology test. When you get to year 12, those have to come from Australian music of the last 25 years, besides musicology which has like short answer stuff on any kind of music, and then the mandatory topic of aus music last 25 years for an essay kind of thing. And then you have to do an elective, which can be either performance, musicology or composition again. If you choose to take up music2, you probably shouldn't have performance as your elective, because you're going up against stiff competition I assume. Have you talked to the music teachers about this kind of stuff? I seriously don't think Music 2 is as hard as you think it is. Although the way you talk about yourself, I'd guess Music is probably going to be one of your drop subjects in year 12 anyway...

 

[Phanatical]

Yeah, music 2 was my bludge subject all those years ago, when the New HSC really was new. My teacher was shocked at how lazily I treated the course (I didn't prepare a Performance work, and did an Improvisation at my Performance exam). If you put in even a Little effort, you can easily get top marks.

 

[tash]

like i said before, the only thing that's going to get put at the end of your name is a BA and B.Med or whatever it's called- you either have the degree or you don't! the only difference i think would be is that you do less arts subjects than a full-time arts student (which is not a big deal), you still have a major and some other random subjects. the med subjects i imagine you couldn't learn any less than the normal load- they're timetable is wacked and from 3rd yr you spend half your time in hospitals anyway. i'm really not sure. and i think doing med is just a mash of the 50 degrees it involves...

regarding BA Music- there isn't much composition in it, the first 2 years are all musicology and musicianship, then you can do electives but i'm not sure how much composition you can do in them, most of them are music history, but there's a few like 'orchestration and arrangement'- oh we did a few compositions in musicianship, but that was more focused on whether we were writing the right chords and stuff

i would suggest you wait til the open days and stuff and have a chat to the faculty members to see what they have to say (but if they have a nark at doing the BA and say it'll clash with blah just ignore them cos they're just full of rubbish) cos i'm really not 100% sure of what i'm talking about!

 

[187]

Composition in the HSC rewards composers that are innovative, and entry to the Con for Composition is along the same lines. Composers with a grounding in electronic music are very well placed for entry to the Con, as it's not just encouraged, but required that all Composition students study electronic music for six semesters. That's why it's called the Composition and Music Technology Unit.

I listened to a few of the past Encore compositions, and I must admit that I'm very freaked out. To be honest, I disliked the sound of them all; to my untrained ear, they sounded unstructured, dissonant and one could even venture to say "crap". Before you whip out your flamethrowers, yes, I realize the previous comment appears to be harsh and misinformed. What I'm trying to say is that those compositions are so very different from the way mine sound. They possess a sort of sophistication I could never write with, and that's quite scary. Personally, I dislike that type of style, whatever it is, but it apparently fits the criteria. It's depressing that how a piece sounds isn't all that important. Phanatical has scared me also. Gah, innovative...

I realise this might sound a bit cliche, but markers are looking for a good understanding and use of compositional theory, innovative use of instruments (including extended techniques where appropriate), appropriate writing for instruments and voices (don't write something that can't be played), and inventive use of musical material. I cannot stress this enough - if you want to apply for the Con, then get yourself a proper Composition teacher (not a performer who also happens to teach theory - but a teacher who has, or is working towards a Composition degree).

Why is it that everyone seems to be composing for a [insert instrument here] quartet, be it flute, violin or clarinet? Is that equivalent to performing an over-played piece such as Canon In D or Moonlight Sonata, or is it somewhat irrelevant, as the composition quality is good? Surely a vibraphone/trumpet/strings combination is slightly more unique...

Entry to the Con with a major in Composition is competitive, with approximately 14-18 candidates accepted every year, about a third to half of whom will be students with previous degrees. The atmosphere is pretty damned good though, and we have our own society, the Sydney Eclectic Composers Society, who put on a regular series of concerts of new Australian music. The Composition degree isn't the sort of degree you take for guaranteed employment - the most common pathways are teaching and professional composition - both of which are commonly done in conjunction with other jobs. That's why I transferred to the BABMusStudies instead.

You'll need to learn Some harmony for the Con, but you'll be taught the rules of harmony like voice leading and use of cadences if/when you actually get in. Fact is though, if you want to do a Composition degree, you need to put in the work now.

It's strange that everyone I've talked to so far didn't take any external composition classes at all. Of course, I don't doubt you - do I just have talented contacts?

In your experience, is hard work enough to make it into the Con? I mean, I supposedly have a little talent for music, but I don't think I'm anything really special. Is force-learning theory, aural, etc., enough to help me make it?

I think it'll have to be Medicine or Composition and nothing in between for me - UNSW doesn't seem to offer only Composition, and apparently the Arts side of Arts/Science equals a lot of essay writing. D'oh!

Once again, I appreciate all the helpful advice and replies. By the way, what notation programs did you all use?

 

[Phanatical]

I listened to a few of the past Encore compositions, and I must admit that I'm very freaked out. To be honest, I disliked the sound of them all; to my untrained ear, they sounded unstructured, dissonant and one could even venture to say "crap". Before you whip out your flamethrowers, yes, I realize the previous comment appears to be harsh and misinformed. What I'm trying to say is that those compositions are so very different from the way mine sound. They possess a sort of sophistication I could never write with, and that's quite scary. Personally, I dislike that type of style, whatever it is, but it apparently fits the criteria. It's depressing that how a piece sounds isn't all that important. Phanatical has scared me also. Gah, innovative...

Personally I haven't been too impressed with some of the Encore compositions I've heard in the past. The key to writing a good composition is to have a clear understanding of what you want to achieve, and the best way to do that is to plan it all out before you start, by choosing the techniques you wish to use, the instrumentation, the shape of the piece etc.

Why is it that everyone seems to be composing for a [insert instrument here] quartet, be it flute, violin or clarinet? Is that equivalent to performing an over-played piece such as Canon In D or Moonlight Sonata, or is it somewhat irrelevant, as the composition quality is good? Surely a vibraphone/trumpet/strings combination is slightly more unique...

In short, yep - though you won't be penalised in the slightest for your choice of instrumentation. It's far preferable to see a student write innovatively within the restrictions of what instruments they have available to them (not everybody has an orchestra at their disposal), than to see students writing ridiculously for exotic instruments because they think it might get them a few more points. It won't.

It's strange that everyone I've talked to so far didn't take any external composition classes at all. Of course, I don't doubt you - do I just have talented contacts?

Competition for places in the course has increased dramatically in just the last few years, and a HSC Music course education in composition won't cut it anymore. That's why I recommend composition lessons - because you're not just up against other HSC candidates.

In your experience, is hard work enough to make it into the Con? I mean, I supposedly have a little talent for music, but I don't think I'm anything really special. Is force-learning theory, aural, etc., enough to help me make it?

Yep and Yep.

I think it'll have to be Medicine or Composition and nothing in between for me - UNSW doesn't seem to offer only Composition, and apparently the Arts side of Arts/Science equals a lot of essay writing. D'oh!

Once again, I appreciate all the helpful advice and replies. By the way, what notation programs did you all use?

I suggest doing one at a time. The Composition degree will establish a lot of the groundwork you'll need in other tertiary degrees in a very unique way. It's been my observation that the composition course really affects how we Think about things - not just in our compositional approaches, but in everything else as well.

I use Sibelius. Much better than Finale.

 

[datAsianGuy]

man! im so envious of you guys who do music 2, cos my gaylord skool put me in the wrong course and I have to do music 1!!!! its such a bludge, I got staright A's all last year.... and now im just bored....

 

[187]

man! im so envious of you guys who do music 2, cos my gaylord skool put me in the wrong course and I have to do music 1!!!! its such a bludge, I got staright A's all last year.... and now im just bored....

I'm more envious of people who are talented/awesome enough to only have to worry about their Music course being too easy, not too hard!

(By the way, I'm typing this without using my right thumb, as it's currently incapacitated. It's much harder than it sounds. Seriously.)

There are 5 Music 2s and 3 Music 1s in my school. We have classes with the Year 9s, so we alternate between doing "real" activities with the teacher and doing research at the library. However, one other Music 1 student says he will probably drop it next year, which will leave only two of us. I'm probably the only one planning to try Composition; I suppose such a monopoly could be beneficial, although my private music teacher has offered to do a duet with me if it's allowed.

It's quite funny that the entire class is studying Baroque except for one guy who's doing Jazz. Basically, our three Year 11 topics are one chosen by the teacher, one by the class, and one individual one. The Music 2s' topic is Baroque music, but as I'm a classical guitarist, I was allowed to join them while the other two Music 1s would do Jazz. However, one other Music 1 guitarist (yep, we're all guitarists) decided to follow my lead and also switch to Baroque. As a result, the Jazz guy receives a lot of special attention from the teacher.

Not that you needed to know, but that's what my Music class is like. Oh, and we have a single computer equipped with Sibelius. o_0

Phanatical inspires me once again. Force-learn it is, O Wise One. Wish me luck!

 

[barrel_roll]

I find aural/composition very difficult, relating the answer to the 'concepts'. You realise that Ameb has never taught you these things and you struggle. I guess practise makes perfect.

 

[jjames-hall]

my school doesnt even have numbers to run a music 2 course, theres 4 in our music 1 and we all guitarists haha. I basically play more than anything and the whole course has taught me more how to read music etc. and all that listening stuff and writing stuff bout it, but cause im alright at english i use fancy words and that seems to get me good marks

 

[Dr_Doom]

Yeah same we only have 8. and didn't have enough for music 2. Everyone plays guitar pretty much except me. :|