Muslim People in Australia (2 Viewers)

[Bill Clinton]

You just got a short memory/time on earth so far. THey hated Greeks and I-talians just as much 30 years ago.

 

[Enlightened_One]

You just got a short memory/time on earth so far. THey hated Greeks and I-talians just as much 30 years ago.

I expected this. I almost included it in my post to save someone the trouble of posting it.

I wasn't alive thirty years ago, so I do have a short time on this Earth as far as that goes.

Yeah, back then we were supposed to be a racist nation. As it was we did provide some services, but nothing like is provided today. And most of those Greeks and Italians became part of society, and have no qualms with Australia, like wanting to rape women because they don't like their culture, or trying to blow the place up.

Muslims were here that long ago too, but for some reason that don't seem to have entered into society like the rest of the migrants. Muslims don't seem to have made any improvement since they came here. That is the difference.

 

[melb22]

Well most muslims in australia are law abiding, hard working honest citizens. There are some that cause problems.

I personally think muslims in general should ask themselves why do some of them create problems in almost every country they are. You just cant blame others on every occasion. If u see france there have been racial tensions there. There are many suburbs in paris which are virtually no go. In uk there were bradford riots. In india they have had clashes with hindus. Sydney is turning into another ny with gang wars.

Unless people admit that there is a problem and try to solve it from within and make changes, these problems are bound to remain.

 

[premer]

What a sad day it was when we [the coalition] invaded Iraq. How we could possibly justify such an action is beyond me. The person who wrote this article, and it is nothing against them as a person, needs to understand, this debate goes a lot further than that of Saddam Hussein.

We as a society should not have sat around and watched this happen. The general truth was that Saddam’s ruling was an atrocity, but the 'ruling' of G. W. Bush is even greater a tragedy. To wage a war on an already torn apart country for oil, and to then crudely base this war on its own problems is disgraceful. Why was it that Bushes reasoning for the war in the Middle East was to find bin laden, although he managed to get side tracked and ended up making a handsome profit. US legislative stock reports obtained by a friend of mine show that the bush family directly made over $88m from the war on Iraq, simple through their investment in the defense contractor that the US government made. Surely you cant still think that the war was to help Iraq?

To further this, the us is now trading Iraq's oil as its own commodity. This disgraceful action, while it may sound illegal, is not, as it is all part of the contract that the US set up when 'liberating' the already desperate country.

While yes there may have been some 'perks' for Iraq, I don’t see the justification in this war at all.

I believe if Australia has the guts to fight against this country, then we have to accept those who either refuge here or who seek a new life here. The red neck, pathetic and uneducated idiots who disagree, blaming such things as Cronulla, on Muslims, should honestly shut the hell up. For too long THEY have acted as though they own these Muslim people. I have serious reservations about living in this country when i see how pathetic our countries people can sometimes be.

Take a long hard look at yourself when you criticize Muslim people living in Australia, because chances are when you go to get a Donna Kebab to dilute the hangover you have from your VB, it will come from a Muslim who is trying to contribute to OUR society, paying taxes and supporting their political beliefs when they vote, frankly doing a far better job than some of the other ‘Australians’ who live in the fair country. And to finish, I am not a Muslim person.

Good Night Irene.......

 

[bshoc]

Why do muslims come here and start sh*t instead of staying in the islamic paradise that is the muslim world?

 

[Spider786]

What a sad day it was when we [the coalition] invaded Iraq. How we could possibly justify such an action is beyond me. The person who wrote this article, and it is nothing against them as a person, needs to understand, this debate goes a lot further than that of Saddam Hussein.

We as a society should not have sat around and watched this happen. The general truth was that Saddam’s ruling was an atrocity, but the 'ruling' of G. W. Bush is even greater a tragedy. To wage a war on an already torn apart country for oil, and to then crudely base this war on its own problems is disgraceful. Why was it that Bushes reasoning for the war in the Middle East was to find bin laden, although he managed to get side tracked and ended up making a handsome profit. US legislative stock reports obtained by a friend of mine show that the bush family directly made over $88m from the war on Iraq, simple through their investment in the defense contractor that the US government made. Surely you cant still think that the war was to help Iraq?

To further this, the us is now trading Iraq's oil as its own commodity. This disgraceful action, while it may sound illegal, is not, as it is all part of the contract that the US set up when 'liberating' the already desperate country.

While yes there may have been some 'perks' for Iraq, I don’t see the justification in this war at all.

I believe if Australia has the guts to fight against this country, then we have to accept those who either refuge here or who seek a new life here. The red neck, pathetic and uneducated idiots who disagree, blaming such things as Cronulla, on Muslims, should honestly shut the hell up. For too long THEY have acted as though they own these Muslim people. I have serious reservations about living in this country when i see how pathetic our countries people can sometimes be.

Take a long hard look at yourself when you criticize Muslim people living in Australia, because chances are when you go to get a Donna Kebab to dilute the hangover you have from your VB, it will come from a Muslim who is trying to contribute to OUR society, paying taxes and supporting their political beliefs when they vote, frankly doing a far better job than some of the other ‘Australians’ who live in the fair country. And to finish, I am not a Muslim person.

Good Night Irene.......

great post Premer

 

[davin]

US legislative stock reports obtained by a friend of mine show that the bush family directly made over $88m from the war on Iraq, simple through their investment in the defense contractor that the US government made.

can you source that? It doesn't make sense to me offhand because I don't see why 'legislative' would be a key word in that, given that the bush family are not members of any legislature, and i'm also not sure how much of the bush family finances would be available to make the claim.

 

[premer]

I believe that the roots of our problems lie in the fundamental western belief that we own everything. Our materialistic tendancies indicate that we have shallow beliefs and we have no consideration for other cultures. This may sound utilitarian, but i assure you i am a hetonist through and through.
Money may solve my problems, but not australia's.

 

[HotShot]

Bad Host, Hotshot? Australia is one of the few countries in the world that allows migration to the level it is currently at. There are all sorts of services available for migrants to allow them to cope when they first migrate to this country.

i am not referring the immigration laws, but as to the people like Katie, who see one person making one mistake and immediately a huge generalisation on that. For eg, lets take speeding, a lot people get booked etc. a lot of aussies does this mean that they are not good citizens and they should be kicked. wat about these bikies? and their gangs, murdering others and having gang wars- kick them out as well?

on that basis everyone in australia would bekicked out, suc h tat the pm will only be in this australia still livin.
reason why people come to AUSTRALIA is because of its oppurtinities? and denying them this, essentially denies their freedom and basically what Australia stands for.

 

[davin]

i always figured australia stood for sending away those that are causing problems

 

[banco55]

i am not referring the immigration laws, but as to the people like Katie, who see one person making one mistake and immediately a huge generalisation on that. For eg, lets take speeding, a lot people get booked etc. a lot of aussies does this mean that they are not good citizens and they should be kicked. wat about these bikies? and their gangs, murdering others and having gang wars- kick them out as well?

on that basis everyone in australia would bekicked out, suc h tat the pm will only be in this australia still livin.
reason why people come to AUSTRALIA is because of its oppurtinities? and denying them this, essentially denies their freedom and basically what Australia stands for.

Well if the Hells Angels had a country I wouldn't think it would be a good idea to take thousands of them in as refugees/immigrants.

 

[Generator]

Well if the Hells Angels had a country I wouldn't think it would be a good idea to take thousands of them in as refugees/immigrants.

Who is to say that all from a particular country are of a like mind?

 

[banco55]

Who is to say that all from a particular country are of a like mind?

You don't have to posit that say 90% of of Muslim Arab immigrants will hold views that (by australian standards) would be considered extremist 5 % would be enough to really consider if it was good policy to let them in. It's not like Australia has trouble attracting immigrants from around the world. We could sign up 100 000 chinese/vietnamese/cambodians/russians in a week if we wanted to and ASIO wouldn't have to worry about them blowing the Opera House up, launching anti-semitic attacks or demanding that our laws be changed. We should be choosy.

 

[veterandoggy]

Why do muslims come here and start sh*t instead of staying in the islamic paradise that is the muslim world?

maybe because alot-if not all- of the "islamic" countries have become everything but that.

and to answer something enlightened one said earlier, yes, we shouldnt submit to non muslim authority (dont know how strong the ruling is) if and only IF there is a country under muslim rule. and arabia isnt under muslim rule. dont fool yourselves, cos muslims arent, its under money rule. and some characteristics of money are greed, selfishness and many more things not comparable to islam, and definately not worth living there. why are muslims there then? they figure that at least having a "muslim" leader who has an ounce of good in him is better than a non muslim ruler that has more, not for what they do, but for what they COULD do later on, as australians have found out. and dont bother rebutting that point, because unless youre one of a handful you wouldnt realise that i have already done my share of arguing in this thread (didnt think you were going to read past page 10) and will probably laugh at you for wasting your time in conjuring up the rebuttal.

on a diffewrent note, i expected this thread to hit page 4 or something, but it is still getting new posts. dont know if it is a good thing or a bad thing.

 

[Generator]

You don't have to posit that say 90% of of Muslim Arab immigrants will hold views that (by australian standards) would be considered extremist 5 % would be enough to really consider if it was good policy to let them in. It's not like Australia has trouble attracting immigrants from around the world. We could sign up 100 000 chinese/vietnamese/cambodians/russians in a week if we wanted to and ASIO wouldn't have to worry about them blowing the Opera House up, launching anti-semitic attacks or demanding that our laws be changed. We should be choosy.

Huh? Are you seriously trying to suggest that all Arabs of the Islamic faith who wish to migrate to Australia should be shunned because a minute minority express themselves in a way that isn't indicative of a commitment the the political and institutional frameworks of Australia?

For the record (and in the context of this particular discussion), those who come here do so in order to improve the lot of both themselves and their family. They are aware of the political and cultural environment into which they are entering, and most do so willingly given that it is the sort of environment that isn't as restrictive and backwards as that which they are leaving. They come here to make a better life for themselves in the knowledge that this is a western society, and though some clearly fall by the wayside, that is far from being reason enough to deny entry to those who meet the requirements as set forth by the immigration department (funnily enough, selective immigration already exists).

As an aside, I think that it would be best to point out recent arrivals aren't the only ones likely to act in a way contrary to what most would consider to be 'good social form'. It's a shame that such people are free of the screening that tends to operate within the immigration system, but I guess that such views aren't that bad when they are coming from the mouth of an Anglo-Celt with a lineage tracing back to the first fleet, are they?

 

[premer]

You don't have to posit that say 90% of of Muslim Arab immigrants will hold views that (by australian standards) would be considered extremist 5 % would be enough to really consider if it was good policy to let them in. It's not like Australia has trouble attracting immigrants from around the world. We could sign up 100 000 chinese/vietnamese/cambodians/russians in a week if we wanted to and ASIO wouldn't have to worry about them blowing the Opera House up, launching anti-semitic attacks or demanding that our laws be changed. We should be choosy.

Sorry banco55, but i have to admit, after reading that statement, i just couldnt help but think that you have made one of the most STUPID statements possible. I must stress the fact that it was sad, i mean 'by australian standards'?? Pathetic, absolutely pathetic...

If you knew anything about australian economic growth you would not have made that comment, if you knew anything about immigration policy, you ewouldnt have bother, if you knew anything about the muslim culture, you wouldnt have made that comment, not to mention your idiocy for not stating what these australian 'standards' actually are.

Your 'better' suggestion was to let in all of these other imigrants. Australian economic groweth relies on a flow of migrants. the reason we are reluctant to change our ways of polution are simple because that would mean to cut down on production and growth, meaning even less migrants. Now EVEN IF you were just an asshole who cared about economic growth, you ewouldnt complain at all, but the fact that you are a stupid asshole is attributed to the fact that the MSLIM FAITH, in no way shape of form, condones extreamism. Have you ever met a muslim? Have you any idea the severity of claiming that 90% of muslims are extreamist?

So what are these australian 'standards'? is that; that imigrants have to like getting shit faced off a case of VB? is that that they have to like a 'good ol' steak'? maybe we should logically extend your assertions and deport some of the vegitarians and some of the vegans too.

As entertaining as some people may find redneck opinions, the truthr is that you statement is NOT fair, is Not justifyable, and is BLATENTLY IGNORANT AND FOOLISH.

You greatly disapoint me.

Goodnight Irene.................

 

[banco55]

Sorry banco55, but i have to admit, after reading that statement, i just couldnt help but think that you have made one of the most STUPID statements possible. I must stress the fact that it was sad, i mean 'by australian standards'?? Pathetic, absolutely pathetic...

If you knew anything about australian economic growth you would not have made that comment, if you knew anything about immigration policy, you ewouldnt have bother, if you knew anything about the muslim culture, you wouldnt have made that comment, not to mention your idiocy for not stating what these australian 'standards' actually are.

Your 'better' suggestion was to let in all of these other imigrants. Australian economic groweth relies on a flow of migrants. the reason we are reluctant to change our ways of polution are simple because that would mean to cut down on production and growth, meaning even less migrants. Now EVEN IF you were just an asshole who cared about economic growth, you ewouldnt complain at all, but the fact that you are a stupid asshole is attributed to the fact that the MSLIM FAITH, in no way shape of form, condones extreamism. Have you ever met a muslim? Have you any idea the severity of claiming that 90% of muslims are extreamist?

So what are these australian 'standards'? is that; that imigrants have to like getting shit faced off a case of VB? is that that they have to like a 'good ol' steak'? maybe we should logically extend your assertions and deport some of the vegitarians and some of the vegans too.

As entertaining as some people may find redneck opinions, the truthr is that you statement is NOT fair, is Not justifyable, and is BLATENTLY IGNORANT AND FOOLISH.

You greatly disapoint me.

Goodnight Irene.................

You must have misread I NEVER claimed 90% of Muslims were extremist. Let me expand on by "Australian standards": people who are deeply ambivalent with regards to western democracy, people who support a kind of institutional misogyny, people who have deep reservations when it comes to freedom of speech (see salman rushdie/allah cartoons), people who revel in anti-semitism. Not to mention a small minority that would like to blow us up. Now I'm sure you'd reply that only a minority of Muslims are opposed to democracy or think the editor of the cartoon that published the cartoons should be shot. But if you have a population of half a million even a small minority can be a major problem. I can't find any similar polls done in Australia but in a major poll of British Muslims for example:

"YouGov asked respondents how they feel about Western society and how, if at all, they feel Muslims should adapt to it. A majority, 56 per cent, believe "Western society may not be perfect but Muslims should live with it and not seek to bring it to an end".
However, nearly a third of British Muslims, 32 per cent, are far more censorious, believing that "Western society is decadent and immoral and that Muslims should seek to bring it to an end"."



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...23.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/07/23/ixnewstop.html


As for whether the Muslim faith is intrinsically violent that's a matter for the theologians. What matters is how Muslims act. Does it matter in the end to anyone but Muslims whether this or that koranic verse supports Jihad?

Of course Australia needs immigrants but are you seriously suggesting the australian economy would be in any way effected by restricting Muslim immigration when we have so many other sources of potential immigrants?

 

[premer]

"YouGov asked respondents how they feel about Western society and how, if at all, they feel Muslims should adapt to it. A majority, 56 per cent, believe "Western society may not be perfect but Muslims should live with it and not seek to bring it to an end".
However, nearly a third of British Muslims, 32 per cent, are far more censorious, believing that "Western society is decadent and immoral and that Muslims should seek to bring it to an end"."

Fantastic poll, but when was the cencus or poll taken, out of which groups and in what context. I hate to say it but you may have read into this far too much. I have to assure you that the words [bring it to an end] are completely taken out of context, a good example of the press making stories for themselves. I am not naive, but if you read carefully, those Muslims who make up that 32%, most probably mean that they want to bring western materialism and immorality to an end.

What do you propose? we have a citizen and immigration 'values' test. If so my opinion is that you should join john howard and peter costello and find some supporters who think the same thing.

Australian Muslims have mainly come here to seek refug or to find a better life. I am ure that most of them did not expect to have their values and beliefs questioned. The Muslim faith is a beautiful thing, and people who use contentious polls or statistics like that one need to really evaluate their own actions before others.

Proper Muslims are not thugs who rape white women, but rather lovely people who pray 5 times a day and would not hurt a fly without praying for its well being. GIVE THEM A BRAKE.......

Yours, Premer, a non-muslim who supports their ideals.

They dont want a fight, they didnt start thi9s, but at this rate they may very well finnish it.
Dont lie, the majority of you people couldnt give a fuck about the middfle east until september 11..... Honest to god, if you did you would understand the ramifications of claiming that they are extreamist, after all we bombed the shit through their countries, what goes around comes around.......

 

[premer]

Of course Australia needs immigrants but are you seriously suggesting the australian economy would be in any way effected by restricting Muslim immigration when we have so many other sources of potential immigrants?[/QUOTE]

I gather you are suggesting we are now in a possition to pick and chose our immigrants..... so much for the second verse of the AUSTRALIAN anthem, 'for those who comed across the seas, we have boundless plains to share'

Frankly, many australians should be ashamed, none the less, this is aparrently us exercising our freedom of speech.......
huh?

 

[IamaFloorMat]

You don't have to posit that say 90% of of Muslim Arab immigrants will hold views that (by australian standards) would be considered extremist 5 % would be enough to really consider if it was good policy to let them in. It's not like Australia has trouble attracting immigrants from around the world. We could sign up 100 000 chinese/vietnamese/cambodians/russians in a week if we wanted to and ASIO wouldn't have to worry about them blowing the Opera House up, launching anti-semitic attacks or demanding that our laws be changed. We should be choosy.

what an odd statement, what about all the inner-city troubles happening at the moment?
Yea thats right, dont mention taht all do you, feeling the need to be accepted are we?