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Neo-Eugenics (1 Viewer)

Asian-American

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http://www.neoeugenics.com/

1. Human intelligence is largely hereditary.

2. Civilization depends totally upon innate intelligence. Without innate intelligence, civilization would never have been created. When intelligence declines, so does civilization.

3. The higher the level of civilization, the better off the population. Civilization is not an either-or proposition. Rather, it's a matter of degree, and each degree, up or down, affects the well-being of every citizen.

4. At the present time, we are evolving to become less intelligent with each new generation. Why is this happening? Simple: the least-intelligent people are having the most children.

5. Unless we halt or reverse this trend, our civilization will invariably decline. Any decline in civilization produces a commensurate increase in the collective "misery quotient."

Logic and scientific evidence stand behind each statement listed above.

So, what are your thoughts?

Regards.
 

miss_b

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Asian-American said:
http://www.neoeugenics.com/

1. Human intelligence is largely hereditary.

2. Civilization depends totally upon innate intelligence. Without innate intelligence, civilization would never have been created. When intelligence declines, so does civilization.

3. The higher the level of civilization, the better off the population. Civilization is not an either-or proposition. Rather, it's a matter of degree, and each degree, up or down, affects the well-being of every citizen.

4. At the present time, we are evolving to become less intelligent with each new generation. Why is this happening? Simple: the least-intelligent people are having the most children.

5. Unless we halt or reverse this trend, our civilization will invariably decline. Any decline in civilization produces a commensurate increase in the collective "misery quotient."

Logic and scientific evidence stand behind each statement listed above.

So, what are your thoughts?

Regards.
Since when have we discovered a gene for intelligence? Why is it now that the unitelligent are repoducing more? Why were the unintelligent reproducing a lot before now?

And what ever happened to ignorance is bliss?
 
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Not-That-Bright

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You're right. Lets lock up these dumb breeding scum in 'concentration' camps, once they learn to concentrate i'm sure they'll become smarter.
 

transcendent

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Does an intelligent human being stop reproducing to prove their intelligence?
 

berghousemaa

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It's true, catholics breed the most!

Jokes, i'm actually catholic.
I think what he is saying is thta the lowest levels of society tend to have more children. ie Africa or even low income families in Australia.

It is true to some degree thta the population is becoming weaker but that is because we're letting the unhealthy people live and be able to breed.
It does not mean we're getting dumber, merely less risiliant to diseases and such.
 

transcendent

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I just read there mission statement... I prefer biogenetic modification experimentation instead. It's quicker and you can specify which gene contributes directly to your 'advanced' human being rather then the blunt and slow approach of selective breeding.

Of course I'm against the whole idea of 'human advancement' altogether unless everyone gets it like a vaccine post-natal. :rolleyes:
 

Asian-American

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gloria_b said:
Since when have we discovered a gene for intelligence?
Scientists have found that identical twins separated at birth and raised apart are very similar in IQ. Remarkably, twins reared apart are as similar as identical twins reared together by the time they're adults. They also resemble one another strikingly in their mannerisms, the way they laugh, their likes and dislikes, phobias, temperament, sexual preference, educational achievement, income, conscientiousness, musical ability, sense of humor, whether they're criminals or law-abiding, and pretty much everything else that's ever been tested, even traits as peculiar as which vegetables they refuse to eat (Bouchard, 1993). The extent of their similarity amazes even the researchers and the twins themselves.

The primacy of genes is likewise demonstrated by adoption studies. Adopted children's IQs resemble those of their biological parents far more closely than they resemble those of their adoptive parents, who essentially provided them with their environments from the time of birth onwards. When adopted children are grown, there's virtually no resemblance between their IQs and those of their adoptive parents (Loehlin, Willerman, and Horn, 1987).

The dominant role of heredity in determining IQ is not a theory, it's an established fact, the consensus of hundreds of studies conducted in different times and places by many different researchers. But the public is largely unaware of this fact because the liberal media have told them repeatedly that most experts in IQ testing believe IQ is largely environmental. In reality, the majority of researchers in the field of intelligence testing believes heredity is the more important factor (Snyderman and Rothman, 1988).


Why is it now that the unitelligent are repoducing more? Why were the unintelligent reproducing a lot before now?
For hundreds of years, until the early 1800s in England and America, there was natural fertility, i.e., no efforts to limit the number of births. Married couples tended to have many children, but not everyone could marry. Men who didn't earn enough to support a family remained single and childless, and the net result was a small positive relationship between fertility and intelligence. Then several books on contraception were published which naturally affected those who could read disproportionately. Condoms and diaphragms became available, and the birth rate of the middle and upper classes declined. By the middle of the century it had become apparent that educated people were having fewer children than the uneducated.

This caused considerable alarm, and a number of studies were undertaken both in England and America in the early decades of the 20th century. Schoolchildren's IQs were found to correlate negatively with their number of siblings, which seemed to confirm fears of dysgenic fertility, but this conclusion was questioned because there was no way to know the IQs of the childless. Later, some U.S. studies of adult IQ and number of offspring reported negative correlations, but other similar studies found no correlation. However, the samples used in all these studies were not representative of the U.S. population as a whole — they were restricted either in terms of race, birth cohort, or geographical area. So by mid-to-late 20th century, there was still no definitive answer to the question of dysgenic fertility. Then in 1984, Frank Bean and Marian van Court had the good fortune to discover an excellent data set, the General Social Survey (GSS), to test the hypothesis. It included a short vocabulary test devised by Thorndike to provide a rough grading of mental ability which was ideal for our study. The GSS had interviewed a large, representative sample of the U.S. population whose reproductive years fell between 1912 and 1982, yielding data which provided the unique opportunity of an overview of the relationship between fertility and IQ for most of the 20th century. In all 15 of the 5-year cohorts, correlations between test scores and number of offspring were negative, and 12 of 15 were statistically significant (Van Court and Bean, 1985).

Recently, Richard Lynn and Marian van Court did a follow-up study which included new data collected in the 1990s by the GSS, and they got very similar results. They calculated that .9 IQ points were being lost per generation (Lynn and Van Court, 2003). To find out how much has been lost during the 20th century, we can simply multiply .9 x 4 generations = 3.6 IQ points. There are no precise data for the latter part of the 19th century, but there's every indication that the period of 1875-1900 was seriously dysgenic. So as a rough (but conservative) estimate of the total 125-year loss, we can multiply .9 x 5 generations = 4.4 IQ points lost from 1875 to the present. A loss of this magnitude would approximately halve those with IQs over 130, and double those with IQs below 70.

In Dysgenics: Genetic Deterioration in Modern Populations, Richard Lynn (1996) found that dysgenic fertility is the rule rather than the exception around the world. There haven't been as many studies done in Europe, but it appears to be about on a par with the U.S. in terms of the severity of the dysgenic trend. The only place dysgenic fertility is not found is sub-Saharan Africa where birth control is not used.

As the reader may have begun to suspect, the main reason for dysgenic fertility is that intelligent women use birth control more successfully than unintelligent women do. This seems to be the case regardless of which method is used. Women of high, average, and low-IQ all want, on average, the same number of children, but low-IQ women have far more accidental pregnancies, and thus more children. If all women had the exact number of children they desired, there would be virtually no dysgenic fertility (Van Court, 1984). A second factor is that very intelligent and successful women (doctors, lawyers, professors, and women working at high levels in business) often end up having far fewer children than they would like to have. A recent study found that 33-43% of professional women are childless by age 41-55, and only 14% of them are childless by choice (Hewlett, 2002).

My sources:

Bouchard, Thomas, (1993), Twins as a Tool of Behavioral Genetics. New York: J. Wiley

Brand, Christopher (1996) The 'g' Factor, New York: Wiley & Sons

Flynn, J.R., (1984) The mean IQ of Americans: Massive gains 1932 to 1978, Psychological Bulletin, 95, 29-51

Hewlett, Sylvia Ann, Creating a Life: Professional Women and the Quest for Children, New York: Talk Miramax Books, 2002, p. 86-87

Jencks, Christopher (1972), Inequality, New York: Basic Books Inc.

Herrnstein, Richard, and Murray, Charles, (1994) The Bell Curve, p. 368, New York: New York Free Press

Loehlin, J., Willerman, L., Horn, J. (1990) Heredity, environment, and personality change: evidence from the Texas Adoption Project, Journal of Personality 58:1, p.221-246

Lynn, Richard (1996), Dysgenics: Genetic Deterioration in Modern Populations, Westport, Conn.: Praeger

Lynn, Richard (2001), Eugenics: A Reassessment, Westport, CT: Praeger

Lynn, Richard, and Van Court, Marian (2003) New evidence of dysgenic fertility for intelligence in the United States, Intelligence 32:2, March, p.193-201, www.eugenics.net

Lynn, Richard and Vanhanen, Tatu (2002), IQ and the Wealth of Nations, Westport, Conn: Praeger

MacDonald, Kevin (1998), The Culture of Critique: An Evolutionary Analysis of Jewish Involvement in Twentieth-Century Intellectual and Political Movements, Westport CT: Praeger

Murray, Charles (1984), Losing Ground: American Social Policy, 1950-1980, New York: Basic Books

Reed, E.W., and Reed, S.C., (1965) Mental Retardation: A Family Study, Philadelphia: W. B. Saunders, p. 78

Rushton, J.P., (1999), "Secular gains in IQ not related to the g factor and inbreeding depression unlike Black-White differences: A reply to Flynn," Personality and Individual Differences, 26, p.381-389

Snyderman, Mark, and Rothman, Stanley (1988), The IQ Controversy, the Media, and Public Policy, New Brunswick: Transaction Books

Van Court, Marian (1983 ) Unwanted births and dysgenic reproduction in the United States, The Eugenics Bulletin, Spring, 1983, www.eugenics.net

Van Court, Marian and Bean, Frank (1985), Intelligence and Fertility in the United States: 1912 to 1982, Intelligence 9, p.23-32, www.eugenics.net


And what ever happened to ignorance is bliss?
Eugenics is for those who favor truth above all else.

Regards.
 
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transcendent

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Oh BTW Asian-American I don't think you're intelligent enough so I'm going to have to sterilise you. :p
 

berghousemaa

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Please tell me you copy pasted thta.
I shudder to think of the typr of person who writes a bobliography at the end of an internet chat room post.
 

MoonlightSonata

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I am ok with negative eugenics

Positive eugenics is very dangerous however...
 

Comrade nathan

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Scientists have found that identical twins separated at birth and raised apart are very similar in IQ.
What were the conditions.

I would like to see this test done with one raised in ghetto with poor education facilities, and the other in a middle to upper community with good education, but i doubt a group of scientist are going to purposely give someone a shit live. Which i assume is the case in the first tests.

All i can think of (not being a scientist) is that genetics pased down creates the physical structure of the brain causes better learning abilities. My only bases on this is that people like Einstien and Lenin had larger parts to their brain then the normal populace.

Innate thoughts is just crazy idealist, theist talk.
 

loquasagacious

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I think that neither nature or nurture is the predominant force.

Yes if someone is not suited to study they will never be good at it.

However conversely if someone is good at it but never given the oppurtunity then they will never be good at it.

What you seem to be proposing is blunt social darwinism, that we (or them) essentially breed out the stupid (or us) people.

I agree that lower socio-economic echelons both within countries and globally do tend to reproduce much more rapidly and on a larger scale, educating them not racing them to the precipice of disaster (through over-population) is the logical answer.
 

Grobus

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Asian-American said:
http://www.neoeugenics.com/


4. At the present time, we are evolving to become less intelligent with each new generation. Why is this happening? Simple: the least-intelligent people are having the most children.

Logic and scientific evidence stand behind each statement listed above.

So, what are your thoughts?

Regards.
Nah man, thats not right. I dont believe there are smart people by hereditary. I think there are just people and families who are better adjusted to that way society at that time. The tip to solving that is creating a society where the people having the children are well adjusted so they can be as productive as possible.
 

Asian-American

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Grobus said:
Nah man, thats not right. I dont believe there are smart people by hereditary. I think there are just people and families who are better adjusted to that way society at that time. The tip to solving that is creating a society where the people having the children are well adjusted so they can be as productive as possible.
You can believe what you want, but the question is whether science is on your side, and it is not.

People's belief in pure cultural determinism is similar to belief in deities: it's based on blind faith, not scientific backing.

Regards.
 

Asian-American

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MoonlightSonata said:
Positive eugenics is very dangerous however...
Incorrect:

http://www.prometheism.net/FAQII.html

I.) Isn't human genetics and biology too complicated to practice eugenics safely ?

1) The Jews practiced eugenics, increasing their IQ by 15 points over the population average. They knew nothing about genetics, but their cultural system made sure the most intellectual and the most intelligent had more opportunities to reproduce.[MacDonald, 1994]

2) We have been doing selective breeding on animals since we started domesticating them. People have been selecting for desired traits for centuries without knowing anything about the complexities of genetics, and it worked. Many different breeds with specific personality traits have been created. The problem here is that they did it via inbreeding, which led to an increase in the occurrence of genetic diseases -- but more recently animal breeding groups have decided to select without using the inbreeding method (i.e. same process of human eugenics, phenotype selection). The result is that it works, if only less efficiently than it did with in-breeding selection (that is, there is a bit more variation within a breed created this way for the trait for which it is notable -- which is not a problem since a decent degree of variation is something we want to keep). Another example is the enhanced longevity of a fruit fly strain created by articial selection. Using phenotype selection for late fertility, in a laboratory at the University of California, Irvine, evolutionary biologist Michael Rose has bred fruit flies that live for 70 to 80 days, nearly twice that of the average fruit fly. Rose first collected eggs laid by middle-aged fruit flies, and let them hatch in isolation. The progeny were then transferred to a communal plexiglass cage to eat, grow and breed under conditions ideal for mating. When they reached advanced ages, the eggs laid by older females and fertilized by older males were again collected and the process was repeated all over again. After 15 generations, the new fruit fly had nearly twice the life span of the average fruit fly. Since these early experiments, even better results have been attained by selecting for other characteristics, such as ability to resist starvation.

3) Some ancient civilizations used negative eugenics. Sparta, one of those who practiced eugenics in selection of physical strength and health, has been one of the most militarily powerful city-states of ancient times. And, despite the fact that these civilizations have been practicing eugenics, nothing negative or destructive happened to them because of that -- quite the opposite.

4) Whether our eugenic program will work or not will itself be part of natural selection. In other words, if human genetics really is so complicated that eugenic programs won't work, then our project will be "eliminated" in some way or another, and natural selection will have accomplished its work, favoring the evolutionary laisser-faireists, culturally and perhaps even genetically. Group selection at work.

That selection can be achieved by simply selecting according to the phenotypical desired trait is not questioned by anybody as far as I know, especially when it is a multifactorial, polygenic trait -- such as intelligence.

True, recessive single-gene diseases that "keep hiding in everybody's genotype" cannot truly be once-and-for-all eliminated from the gene pool, but their incidence CAN be reduced within our gene pool. According to John Armstrong, of the "Canine Diversity Project" -- an animal breeding project --: "Though it is not practical to eliminate all deleterious mutation, the incidence of affected individuals may be significantly reduced through a combination of intelligent breeding practice and the development of DNA tests."

And it makes sense to anyone with at least the most basic knowledge of population genetics. I don't see why this wouldn't apply to humans, and I would even less see why multifactorial traits could not be selected for in the same way.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Jewish Eugenics

By Rabbi Max Reichler

Who knows the cause of Israel's survival? Why did the Jew survive the
onslaughts of Time, when others, numerically and politically stronger,
succumbed? Obedience to the Law of Life, declares the modern student
of eugenics, was the saving quality which rendered the Jewish race
immune from disease and destruction. "The Jews, ancient and modern,"
says Dr. Stanton Coit, "have always understood the science of eugenics,
and have governed themselves in accordance with it; hence the
preservation of the Jewish race."1

I. Jewish Attitude

To be sure eugenics as a science could hardly have existed among the
ancient Jews; but many eugenic rules were certainly incorporated in the
large collection of Biblical and Rabbinical laws. Indeed there are clear
indications of a conscious effort to utilize all influences that might
improve the inborn qualities of the Jewish race, and to guard against any
practice that might vitiate the purity of the race, or "impair the racial
qualities of future generations" either physically, mentally, or morally.2
The Jew approached the matter of sex relationship neither with the horror
of the prude, nor with the passionate eagerness of the pagan, but with
the sane and sound attitude of the far-seeing prophet. His goal was the
creation of the ideal home, which to him meant the abode of purity and
happiness, the source of strength and vigor for body and mind.4

[ . . . ]

Complete article at http://groups-beta.google.com/group..._doneTitle=Back+to+Search&&d#e21a7b64f7879e18

-----------------------------------------------------------------

History, Eugenics, And The Jews
Posted 5/13/2004

By John Glad

The September 12, 2003 issue of The Jewish Press carried an article by
Edwin Black tarring the American eugenics movement with the brush of
National Socialism and genocide.

In Israel itself many eugenic measures have become widely accepted.
There are now more fertility clinics per capita there than in any other country in the world. Surrogacy was legalized in 1996. In vitro fertilization and embryo transfer are preferred by some rabbis as a form of fertility treatment that does not violate the literal halachic precepts against adultery. And, although human reproductive cloning is currently not permitted because the technology is not yet considered safe, the Chief Rabbinate of Israel sees no inherent religious interdiction in reproductive cloning as a form of treatment for infertility.

Eugenics is popularly presented as the ideology of the Holocaust and is an object of intense vilification, leading the Jewish philosopher and Zionist Leo
Strauss to coin the maxim "reductio ad Hitlerum": Hitler believed in eugenics, X believes in eugenics, therefore X is a Nazi.

[ . . . ]

Complete article is at http://www.thejewishpress.com/news_article.asp?article=3719

------------------------------------------------

Finally, how eugenics made the Jewish people strong and successful: http://home.comcast.net/~neoeugenics/mac.htm

Regards.
 

Asian-American

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What do you think about China's eugenics program: http://www.amren.com/0111issue/0111issue.htm#article1

Prof. Lynn is convinced, however, that an Asian country—most likely China—will soon institute a mandatory ES program for its population, and that the resulting improvement in its gene pool will tip the international balance of power decisively in its favor. Attitudes in China radically differ from those in the West. Chinese law already requires sterilization of mental retardates and those with genetic illnesses. Prenatal testing of fetuses is mandatory, and defectives must be aborted. No one with mental illness, venereal disease, or hepatitis may marry.

In the mid-1990s, a poll-taker asked Chinese and Western doctors the following question: Should there be mandatory sterilization for a single, blind woman on public welfare who has already had three children by three different men, all of whom are absent from the household? Only five percent of Western doctors but 82 percent of Chinese doctors said “yes.”

Now that socialism is discredited, Prof. Lynn thinks the Chinese will fill the ideological void with eugenics. He predicts it will become the first, full-fledged eugenic state: all 12-year-old girls will be fitted with contraceptives, only approved couples will be permitted to have children, and ES will be used for all births. Psychopathy and genetic diseases will be eliminated, and IQ will stabilize at the theoretical maximum of about 200 in six or seven generations. Licensing parents will seem just as reasonable as licensing drivers.

Prof. Lynn predicts that in the short run, China’s rulers will clone themselves. In most cases this will mean talent and ability are passed on to the next generation, and it will make it easier for the oligarchs to pass on power to people they can trust—their own twins.

Prof. Lynn’s best guess at a timetable is that ES will be perfected and in obligatory use in China within ten years. Twenty years later there will be the first generation of ES adults, and 20 years after that, half the working population will have come from selected embryos. In 50 years, therefore, China will be the world’s most formidable power.
 

supercharged

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Intelligence is really not predictable I've seen plenty of families where one kid is really smart and the other one/s are just average or one is dumb/ rest smart and then there are families where the parents are nothing unusual but the kids are really bright because the parents push them hard

imo environmental factors have at least as much to do with intelligence as genetics so i do not agree with eugenics unless it is for preventing the spread of serious diseases
 

miss_b

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Asian-American said:
What do you think about China's eugenics program: http://www.amren.com/0111issue/0111issue.htm#article1
This just might be the way to go? But why stop there? Why not insert gene sequences of other animals/plants into embryos? Where does it stop?

Also, who gets to deside what is a desirable characteristic in a child? The state or the parents?

BTW I am all for it
 

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