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Next Prime Minister (2 Viewers)

Who should be the next Prime Minister?


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Lentern

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spiny norman said:
No way.

Firstly, I can't see Rudd losing. For some time. People said it was a honeymoon, now they're saying extended honeymoon, but at 59-41, that's a really fucking popular Prime Minister, and it will take a long time for that to be whittled away (unless this financial crisis becomes really bad).

So I think the next PM will be from the ALP side, but I don't think it'll be Stephen Smith. For starters, he's not particularly well known, aside for middle-aged women like my mother who term him "the hot one". Fact is, a lot of people are really hanging out for a woman to finally get to the top job, and Gillard seems to be the one. In Australian politics, every woman nearing that level of success has been picked off (see Julie Bishop now) but Gillard still is there, and incredibly popular herself.

She may be from the Left, but her great popularity means she can not be snubbed, I don't think.
Gillard you say is really popular but Smith's approval rating is up, Swan's approval rating up, Roxon's approval rating is up, Garrett's approval rating is up. It is a popular government, Gillard is incredibly polarising. Did anyone see her carrying on after she had gotten her way over the education bill? Here she had an opportunity to appear gracefull, bipartisan, hell to actually appear to be driven by the issue itself and instead she just milked it for all the politically points she could. That will wear thin, she is not Paul Keating, she doesn't have the wit, the charisma or the instinct to get away with it and yet she tries.

Smith has got the ingredients for major party leader, aside from your correct note that his phyiscal appearance is handsome and distinguised his rhetoric style is very serious, he can convince people that he is sincere and concerned. Anyone who has seen much of him knows he can handle himself in tough situations, no Sarah Palin moments, if Rudd, someone with very good political instincts decides to hand over the gig he will have the common sense to see that Gillard, Albanese and Swan, the other three"visible" frontbenchers would have grave weakness' exposed as leaders.

As I said before if Rudd is ousted than it will probably be by Gillard, a few less clever members of the party like the Fergusons, A few opportunists hoping to get something a little better, a few that can't stand Rudd and Gillard's own little inner circle might turn on the PM but they'd be signing their own death warrants in the process.

Some people are probably getting tired of me going oin about them but for me there are two key concepts democratic politics operates upon.
-Timing, the older a government the steeper the slope is to climb.
-The absence of negatives trumps the presence of positives.

It's nice to think it takes some real formidable force with ideas and agenda to force out a competent incumbent government. But most changes happen as old governments become stale and beatable by drover dogs.
 

jb_nc

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anyone who voted anything other than bob brown in scum btw
 

that bloke

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jb_nc said:
anyone who voted anything other than bob brown in scum btw
a queer greenie?? Yeah right, Australia is really ready to elect someone like that...
People with extremist agendas serve a purpose. But they should never actually be in power.
 

Nebuchanezzar

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that bloke said:
a queer greenie?? Yeah right, Australia is really ready to elect someone like that...
People with extremist agendas serve a purpose. But they should never actually be in power.
homosexuality is the most extreme of all agendas
 

jb_nc

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Nebuchanezzar said:
homosexuality is the most extreme of all agendas


BUT THE BIBLE SAYS NO
 

rasengan90

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spiny norman said:
So I think the next PM will be from the ALP side, but I don't think it'll be Stephen Smith. For starters, he's not particularly well known, aside for middle-aged women like my mother who term him "the hot one".
...I think I just threw up a bit in my mouth.
To me Australia is really lacking in good leadership. I have always hated Rudd and the ALP and the Greens are a bunch of hippie bastards. I liked Costello but he didn't have the balls to challenge Nelson or Turnbull, if he really doesn't want it he probably wouldn't be great anyway. Turnbull is okay but I am not a big fan of his republicansim.
 

Lentern

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Nebuchanezzar said:
homosexuality is the most extreme of all agendas
You can't pluralise the word agenda on account of it allready being a plural. Homosexulity is the most extreme agendum, or homosexuality is the most extreme of agenda.
 

Lentern

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rasengan90 said:
...I think I just threw up a bit in my mouth.
To me Australia is really lacking in good leadership. I have always hated Rudd and the ALP and the Greens are a bunch of hippie bastards. I liked Costello but he didn't have the balls to challenge Nelson or Turnbull, if he really doesn't want it he probably wouldn't be great anyway. Turnbull is okay but I am not a big fan of his republicansim.
I suppose you think Latham was a stronger leader? Had gumption, no nonsense.
 

spiny norman

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Lentern said:
Smith has got the ingredients for major party leader, aside from your correct note that his phyiscal appearance is handsome and distinguised his rhetoric style is very serious, he can convince people that he is sincere and concerned. Anyone who has seen much of him knows he can handle himself in tough situations, no Sarah Palin moments, if Rudd, someone with very good political instincts decides to hand over the gig he will have the common sense to see that Gillard, Albanese and Swan, the other three"visible" frontbenchers would have grave weakness' exposed as leaders.
I don't get your ongoing Stephen Smith wankfest. He's been a solid foreign minister, without having to ever really having his portfolio be tested too much.

In the sense that he's been solid (and not a weakness like I feel Conroy and McClelland have been, and ultimately are the only ones I'd rate as such in the Rudd cabinet) he's done better than I expected.

But I was never overly impressed with him, and then Don Watson's depiction of him in Recollections of a Bleeding Heart seemed to me to reinforce my distrust of him (and given Latham's criticise of him seems to echo, I find it believable). I quote:

Stephen believed politics had to be played by the polls. Whatever the focus groups are most impressed by, repeat. Whatever the focus groups say they want, say you'll give them, say you're 'committed' to it. Whatever they don't like, you don't like either. The terrible thing about this tactic is that, on balance, it probably works. When the Prime Minister was on his way to a speech or a press conference or Question Time, as he went out the door or hurried down a corridor or jumped in a car, Smith would say, 'Mention jobs, mate. Jobs and recovery.' Keating all too rarely did, and it was probably because Smith so incessantly told him to. Speeches were subjected to the same kind of judgments. The principle was to never leave the strategy. Jobs and recovery always had to be at the top of the speech: that was the message, and nothing else in the document, nothing else said that week, nothing else between whenever it was and the election, should get in the way of the message. If someone did have an idea, Smith would usually say, 'We've got Hoggy's polling on Friday. Let's wait and look at the polling.'
It's the kind of blandness Rudd is criticised for, but to a caricatured extent. I just don't think such a person who stands for so little could ever be considered a viable Prime Minister. Give me someone with personality any day.

Also, unless Rudd stands down incredibly soon, I don't think Smith's going to get any younger.
 

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Smith's had it easy. Rudd's background is foreign affairs. Anything of real substance has been handled by him.
 

Trefoil

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Gillard is pretty awesome in Senate video clips and she wrote a great workplace relations speech.
 

moll.

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jb_nc said:
Whoever put Bob Brown and Barnaby Joyce, both Senators, in is fucking stupid. I hope it wasn't you Iron.

Check your premises Theist.
Ain't nothing in the Constitution which says the PM can't be elected from the Senate. Gorton was elected from the Senate. Brown and Joyce could just do what he did, that is immediately resign from the Senate and then take up a seat in the lower house.
 

Iron

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Pity the Greens dont have the muscle to get a seat in the real house...
 

Lentern

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spiny norman said:
I don't get your ongoing Stephen Smith wankfest. He's been a solid foreign minister, without having to ever really having his portfolio be tested too much.

In the sense that he's been solid (and not a weakness like I feel Conroy and McClelland have been, and ultimately are the only ones I'd rate as such in the Rudd cabinet) he's done better than I expected.

But I was never overly impressed with him, and then Don Watson's depiction of him in Recollections of a Bleeding Heart seemed to me to reinforce my distrust of him (and given Latham's criticise of him seems to echo, I find it believable). I quote:



It's the kind of blandness Rudd is criticised for, but to a caricatured extent. I just don't think such a person who stands for so little could ever be considered a viable Prime Minister. Give me someone with personality any day.

Also, unless Rudd stands down incredibly soon, I don't think Smith's going to get any younger.
Well one key issue you are dodging is the lack of an alternative. Swan is a fantastic local member but he is really not up to senior ministry, let alone leadership, he looks and sounds like a toad, when he's got momentum he comes across as a bully and when he doesn't he's like a weak kid scrambling around trying to find his glassess. He is guilty of trying to memorise his lins at times which speaks volumes of his actual ability to ad lib, the only thing he really has going for him is that he didn't vote for Latham.

You must see that Gillard is an extremely polarising figure and whilst 65% of Australia are in that moderately socially progressive and fiscally conservative mood she can get away with it but if she keeps teasing opposition MP's whenever they concede that they don't have the numbers to block bills like she did Christopher Pyne on the education bill then come a time when the Rudd express begins to lose steam she will be made to pay for it. She spends political capital by the thousands. Plus she did the unthinkable that in my book should have her ruled out of consideration for the leadership, she voted for Latham.

Albanese is the leader of the house, for those few(and I'm not suggesting you are one) who think he is in the running he is not. He has the Leader of the House role because of his high level of understanding of parliamentary procedures and his confident speaking style, he is not in line to be prime minister which is why he has such a low ministry.

Lindsay Tanner would actually be a decent leader, even if he is more unfortunately named then the prime minister. But he is from the socialist left faction, he doesn't have the glossy look of Rudd or Smith and has fairly junior ministry for someone with such aspirations. I don't think he's in the running.


As for your nonsense about needing personality and Smith being too bland and on messsage, you're talking like a Latham. In 1996 John Howard was a walkiing platitude dispensor, Kevin Rudd spent 12 months trying to convince people he had no plans to change the machine that is Australia, just keep it well oiled, hence his appearance of not knowing what to do. A Smith premiership sounds about as exciting as a Crean-Macklin government, but a stale old government lead by Humphrey Appleby might benefit from a no-nonsense, issue driven leader with a sense of earnest and sincerity about him. He may be an apparatchick but he has one assett which Rudd, Gillard, Costello, Turnbull, Latham, Hockey and Keating will never quite understand, he doesn't seem to think himself the bees nees(even if he does in private).

As for your comment about age, A handover to me must happen in the next five years, The reason being I don't think Rudd will have a choice about it much afterwards. If Rudd wins in 2012-13, he will limp over the line providing Tony Abbott is kept locked up, the caucus will know he doesn't have the capital left to beat a competent opposition three years on from then and will need a good run up to an election if a new PM is going to handle it, so Rudd probably gets 1 year to handover or they knife him.

I do make room for the possibility that another MP will rise to prominence by then though and make him or herself the heir apparent. Fitz is doing well maybe he'll climb the greasy poll.
 

chicky_pie

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Lentern said:
Well one key issue you are dodging is the lack of an alternative. Swan is a fantastic local member but he is really not up to senior ministry, let alone leadership, he looks and sounds like a toad, when he's got momentum he comes across as a bully and when he doesn't he's like a weak kid scrambling around trying to find his glassess. He is guilty of trying to memorise his lins at times which speaks volumes of his actual ability to ad lib, the only thing he really has going for him is that he didn't vote for Latham.
That's because he's from QUEENSLAND.

:rofl:
 

incentivation

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Lentern said:
You can't pluralise the word agenda on account of it allready being a plural. Homosexulity is the most extreme agendum, or homosexuality is the most extreme of agenda.
Is it just me or do his posts reek of some intellectual superiority? This is a forum. Get over grammatical errors.

Hockey for the win. If Gillard is ever PM, heaven help us. That voice. Oh that voice :cold:
 

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