Nice proof (1 Viewer)

no_arg

Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2004
Messages
64
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
Let .
where the sum on the right has terms.
For example if we have
Differentiating we have
where the sum on the right still has terms.
Thus and hence .
 
Last edited:

Drdusk

π
Moderator
Joined
Feb 24, 2017
Messages
1,281
Gender
Male
HSC
2018
Uni Grad
2023
Let .
where the sum on the right has terms.
For example if we have
Differentiating we have
where the sum on the right still has terms.
Thus and hence .
 

blyatman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2018
Messages
454
Location
Austin, Texas, USA
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
Every step up to and including seems fine. However, you can't simply divide by much like how you can't divide both sides of by . Doing so is equivalent to dividing by 0, as is a solution. The correct way to solve it would be to subtract from both sides, which leaves the solution . Thus, the only way for a solution to exist is if (i.e. to include 0 in the domain).

In regards to why this is the case, I'm still trying to get my head around it. One would think that the derivative of both sides would be the same for all since . However, this definition would start to get a bit iffy for non-integer values of . But then that just raises another question: why would this only be true for , and not all integer values? Regardless, you can't get since the step you took (i.e. dividing by 0) would result in the end of the universe as we know it.

@Drdusk I'm also thinking about your point of having terms. On the surface, this seemed OK to me, but now I'm questioning myself whether this is indeed allowed, since the result of seems rather nonsensical.
 
Last edited:

Trebla

Administrator
Administrator
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
6,570
Gender
Male
HSC
2006
The main flaw is that the number of terms is also a variable whereas the additivity of differentiation applies when the number of terms is fixed. A similar example is writing:

x = 1+1+1+....+1 (x-times)

Leading to the 1 = 0 fallacy.

Another flaw is that this decomposition assumes x is an integer so obviously there are complications with limits/continuity etc.
 

Drdusk

π
Moderator
Joined
Feb 24, 2017
Messages
1,281
Gender
Male
HSC
2018
Uni Grad
2023
The main flaw is that the number of terms is also a variable whereas the additivity of differentiation applies when the number of terms is fixed. A similar example is writing:

x = 1+1+1+....+1 (x-times)

Leading to the 1 = 0 fallacy.

Another flaw is that this decomposition assumes x is an integer so obviously there are complications with limits/continuity etc.
Yeah but if you just look at the equation x+x+....+x (x times) then how can you mathematically tell that you cannot do that. Sure you can factorize it and what not to show it but that equation alone doesn't show the flaw which is weird.
 

ultra908

Member
Joined
May 11, 2019
Messages
83
Gender
Male
HSC
2020
Yeah but if you just look at the equation x+x+....+x (x times) then how can you mathematically tell that you cannot do that. Sure you can factorize it and what not to show it but that equation alone doesn't show the flaw which is weird.
I guess its like trying to do d/dx (x^x) as x*x^(x-1). Bcos "x times" is also varying, you can't just diff it normally.
 

Trebla

Administrator
Administrator
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
6,570
Gender
Male
HSC
2006
Yeah but if you just look at the equation x+x+....+x (x times) then how can you mathematically tell that you cannot do that. Sure you can factorize it and what not to show it but that equation alone doesn't show the flaw which is weird.
The decomposition step is perfectly valid for integer values of x.

The invalid step is the differentiation step because it is not recognising that the number of terms is also a variable.
 

stupid_girl

Active Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2009
Messages
162
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
The decomposition step is perfectly valid for integer values of x.

The invalid step is the differentiation step because it is not recognising that the number of terms is also a variable.
If the decomposition step is only valid for positive integer values of x, then it's simply not continuous and therefore not differentiatable.
 

dan964

MOD
Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2014
Messages
2,991
Location
South of here
Gender
Male
HSC
2014
Uni Grad
2018
Try differentiating the RHS by first principles:
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top