No more DFEE?? (2 Viewers)

[jackmurray1989]

How about we say subsidies should be provided on merit, but forbidding the provision of a good to certain people who are 100% prepared to pay for it (imagine if we restricted the purchase of sporting equipment to those who were talented at it, for example) is retarded.

That's what private collages are for. Not everything can be nor should be bought.

 

[Arithela]

Do we know for sure whether those abolished dfee places will actually be available as csp places?

 

[withoutaface]

That's what private collages are for. Not everything can be nor should be bought.

Provide reasons for why a university education can't be bought.

Provide evidence that you suffer from having fee paying students in your classes but do not suffer from having international students in the same classes.

Provide reasons for why such students could not just be given their own set of tutorials with other fee paying students.

There are so many holes in your argument it's ridiculous.

 

[FeelBare]

public unis are not for profit? they are there to educate people not so much the money, they need the money however to allow the students access to the best lectures, resources etc. as possible

:jaw: Don't you have a lot to learn lol.

And they better not fucking take away DFEE places; your HECS fee, if you're studying for 5+ years, doesn't come too cheaply. Basically I couldn't give two shits about who is deserving of a place in university or not (it is not my place to worry about this). And it sounds so unrealistic that the Rudd government would be able to subsidize for any funds that would have otherwise been paid by DFEE. As Melanie said: "DFEE fees are approx. 3-4 times more expensive than CSP so CSP's would need to increase 3-4 times for them to recieve the same revenue".

 

[PF]

Provide reasons for why a university education can't be bought.

possible reason for why it is unfair that a university education can be bought:
what is the reason that one person can buy it, and another can't? because one is poorer. i am sure even u would find this reason little unfair. the average/well-off family may be able to afford it, but lower income families wouldn't be able to.

u may ask, why should sporting equipment be bought whereas education shouldn't be? noticably richer kids actually get teased at school for having all the latest items - because of jealousy at the unfairness that they get everything just because of richer parents.

Provide evidence that you suffer from having fee paying students in your classes but do not suffer from having international students in the same classes.

in all honesty, i dont really suffer from either - most students are fairly passive during my lectures/tutorials. in fact, i will be neither greatly saddened nor overjoyed by the abolition of dfee. i know a lot of friendly students who are dfee. the idea of equality for all is just a concept that keeps society happy.

There are so many holes in your argument it's ridiculous.

there are holes on both sides, just more on yours

 

[aileenli]

possible reason for why it is unfair that a university education can be bought:
what is the reason that one person can buy it, and another can't? because one is poorer. i am sure even u would find this reason little unfair. the average/well-off family may be able to afford it, but lower income families wouldn't be able to.

That isn't an unfair reason - thats life. Money talks, and if you don't have it and you still want a university education, the answer is simple - work harder to get a CSP spot. Abolishing DFEE just allows more people who aren't as committed to uni work in - which wastes tax payer money. Also, I'm sure all you guys who actually word dont want to be stuck with some dumb shit for group assignments. Most DFEE students seem to work hard because they think about the debt that accrues if they continually fail units.

u may ask, why should sporting equipment be bought whereas education shouldn't be? noticably richer kids actually get teased at school for having all the latest items - because of jealousy at the unfairness that they get everything just because of richer parents.

That is ridiculous.

in all honesty, i dont really suffer from either - most students are fairly passive during my lectures/tutorials. in fact, i will be neither greatly saddened nor overjoyed by the abolition of dfee. i know a lot of friendly students who are dfee. the idea of equality for all is just a concept that keeps society happy.


there are holes on both sides, just more on yours

And that is what it will stay as - a concept and nothing more. Because lets be honest, life does not treat everyone equally.

 

[jackmurray1989]

Provide reasons for why a university education can't be bought.

In Australia education is a right, not a service. Private colleges are fine for people who want a degree without making an effort, but university enterence should not be based on wealth.

Provide evidence that you suffer from having fee paying students in your classes but do not suffer from having international students in the same classes.

Obviously the international student system needs to be changed as well. The fact that international students get places is not a valid argument for DFEE.

Provide reasons for why such students could not just be given their own set of tutorials with other fee paying students.

Huh?

 

[Azamakumar]

In Australia education is a right,

Exactly how would you go about proving that.



And if you do manage to do so, theres free public education up to the HSC, then TAFE (which is pretty damn cheap) for after that. Saying that it is a right essentially breaks down your argument, in that "any idiot would have access to it and places would no longer be based on merit".

 

[PF]

That isn't an unfair reason - thats life.

Because lets be honest, life does not treat everyone equally.

you are saying dfee is just a part of life, and that life is unfair. i.e. dfee is unfair - that was precisely my point. thankyou.


no offence btw, i dont have a problem with any dfees ive met

 

[melanieeeee.]

you are saying dfee is just a part of life, and that life is unfair. i.e. dfee is unfair - that was precisely my point. thankyou.

i tell you what is unfair - using tax payers money for this when it be used more effectively for more important things like decreasing inequality in the broader community if DFEE was still around.

 

[aileenli]

you are saying dfee is just a part of life, and that life is unfair. i.e. dfee is unfair - that was precisely my point. thankyou.


no offence btw, i dont have a problem with any dfees ive met

Yes it is. And money basically buys everything. Get used to it - work harder for the HSC or get your parents to pay the fees for you. I dont see why tax payers should when there are other things the money could be used for - like the free health care system.

 

[wrong_turn]

hey i dont see anything wrong with dfee places. if you want to be there then sure enough, you have to work hard for it. someone mentioned earlier that the hsc is not based on how well you did academically. there may be reasons why a person's performance is affected in their uai.
this is why there is such a thing as eas schemes for disadvantaged students but it doesnt account for other factors not attributed by these schemes.

if a student gets into their university course, so what? say for example if a student with a high uai does shit compared to the student with low uai who does well, what then? this can easily be compared to that of a high uai that does well and the low uai student that does shit. this is just how you percieve it.

if they have a shit uai and do shit fair enough. its not your problem.

what most of you wads try to pick out is the favourable circumstance compared to the alternative circumstance and not thinking about the alterntive circumstances.

fee-help students pay for their course exactly the same way as a csp student. except the fact that they have a lot more to pay at the end of thier degree.
therefore it makes no difference with the student's family wealth when they recieve their uai.

this question would make a really good mulitple regression model.

 

[Gay Captain]

i tell you what is unfair - using tax payers money for this when it be used more effectively for more important things like decreasing inequality in the broader community if DFEE was still around.

you're fairly sharp for an aught eighter

 

[wrong_turn]

http://community.boredofstudies.org/showthread.php?t=99988

this is a previous thread of the same argument.

 

[withoutaface]

possible reason for why it is unfair that a university education can be bought:
what is the reason that one person can buy it, and another can't? because one is poorer. i am sure even u would find this reason little unfair. the average/well-off family may be able to afford it, but lower income families wouldn't be able to.

So because the rich parents can afford to buy their kids a 50m swimming pool, we should ban said purchases and have the government dole out swimming pools only to the top 10% of athletic children?

u may ask, why should sporting equipment be bought whereas education shouldn't be? noticably richer kids actually get teased at school for having all the latest items - because of jealousy at the unfairness that they get everything just because of richer parents.

What?

in all honesty, i dont really suffer from either - most students are fairly passive during my lectures/tutorials. in fact, i will be neither greatly saddened nor overjoyed by the abolition of dfee. i know a lot of friendly students who are dfee. the idea of equality for all is just a concept that keeps society happy.

This type of equality is ridiculous because it takes things away from the 'rich' and gives nothing extra to the 'poor', save satiating their tall poppy syndrome.

 

[withoutaface]

In Australia education is a right, not a service. Private colleges are fine for people who want a degree without making an effort, but university enterence should not be based on wealth.

Why is it a right?

How does something being available to more people (albeit some of them richer) make it any less valuable than those who would've possessed it otherwise?

 

[melchen]

WELL in any case with the release of the budget tomorrow we will all find out for sure if dfee will be abolished won't we?

exciting times, really...

=)

 

[Arithela]

will the budget be accessable on the internet?

 

[Arithela]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/rudd-urged-save-it-dont-spend-it/2008/05/12/1210444339393.html

looks like dfee WON'T be abolished?

 

[pigyar]

No more DFEE!?

Did anyone hear that the government is reviewing on the DFEE system in getting into uni. Why are they doing this and does it mean there will not be DFEE this year?